John M to Andre: The MOQ isn't a living, dynamic entity. It is a static intellectual pattern. It was made at a point in time by one person, in the midst of his own unique circumstances.
Andre: I would like to come back to this observation by John M which undoubtedly is arrived at through a deeply felt sense of separation caused by a (psychological) conviction/belief of individuality/independence/ego-centricity. John M’s observation that the experience of what Pirsig presents through the MOQ ¨doesn’t fit mine” is indicative and very misleading.. ( On Sept 13 John M said: But it doesn't fit mine, so I try to bend it into something I can use, and I get chastised by some in this forum for doing that.(and the other John as wel). I’m really sorry to say this but what this jungle of patterns of value (give them a name if you want ) argue for is: look at me, my experience is different…and that is why the MOQ and Pirsig is weak, flawed, wrong, mistaken, faint-hearted…ladida . Remember the observation in ZMM as to why people respond differently to Quality? Oh boy… . But is seems that the argument by these two ( and we have had many in the past) is that nothing good can come out of the organic and social patterns ( especially when they have been labeled ¨insane’ ) and the, when they ¨pretend” ( oh dear God this cannot be true) towards revealing insights that show, and are reflected/translated into intellectual patterns ( as if nothing good can come out of this ) and, moreover using these patterns ( Pirsig’s so called insanity) to discredit (!!!) the intellectual pattern (the MOQ) it has produced. And the ¨sane” dominate and make judgement? In Buddhist terms it is as though the insane are passing judgement on the sane/ awake. Never mind…this happens all the time. You do not need to be a buddhist to see through this. It seems of the utmost importance to maintain this position of chastising these patterns (if we all want to ¨bend`’ Pirsig’s given insights) and reduce them to instances of one’ s individual experiences. If we keep on doing this and insisting on this we keep on arguing with each other simply because some of us do not understand the MOQ ( let’s say the written MOQ) as ¨opposed” to he living/breathing/ever-changing world it talks about. It is sad really but, since the above mentioned pattens’ gripe seems to be that the MOQ does not fulfill their innermost longing I do want to conclude with the poem Pirsig” s MOQ reflects… and follow it up with a poem of a non-dual teacher I have learnt to admire and respect over the years: While sustaining biological and social patterns. Kill them completely And then follow Dynamic Quality And morality will be served. ( LILA, p:406) The waves of mind demand so much of Silence. But she does not talk back does not give answers to arguments. She is the hidden author of every thought every feeling every moment. Silence. She speaks only one word. And that word is this very existence. No name you give Her touches Her captures Her. No understanding can embrace Her. Mind throws itself at Silence demanding to be let in. But no mind can enter into Her radiant darkness Her pure and smiling nothingness The mind hurls itself into sacred questions. But Silence remains unmoved by the tantrums. She asks only for nothing. Nothing. But you won’t give it to Her because it is the last coin in your pocket. And you would rather give her your demands than your sacred and empty hands. I will repeat the challenge: what is there outside of the MOQ other than that for which DQ is a referring term? Find opportunities within yourself and do not blame Pirsig’s MOQ…it is a finger pointing to the moon. And that is what we are here for: to see the moon. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
