No On 03/01/2017 10:08, [email protected] wrote:
Horse,GET BACK IN HERE AND TELL ME CAN I CALL RON A "DICKWAD" OR NOT It is funny because it's true. Wait, what is?It's true that by behaving this way I am actually acknowledging that intellectual patterns depend on social patterns. They need social patterns to survive. So I try to verify that my behavior is in accordance with social norms.AND I'M STILL DOING IT WRONGBut you don't have a category for the reason why it's wrong. I do, and you refuse it because I have made it a humiliating thing to accept. But your metaphysics doesn't explain this humiliating feeling. It says you should thank me. Why don't you want to do so?Why don't you want to thank me for dominating sociality with intellect while verifying that my behavior isn't socially inappropriate?Tuk Lainaus [email protected]:Horse, Can we change the mailing list rules? I need to call Ron a "dickwad" as a part of a dialectical technique that seems rhetorical to him because he doesn't understand it. Tuk Lainaus Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]>:Ron, and why am I asking you this question that sounds so offensive? "What is so good about society that you would defend it against me?" I agree that sounds pretty selfish. But what's *wrong* about it according to the MOQ? The MOQ doesn't state it's wrong to be selfish. It states that intellect is superior to society. The point I am making here is a parody of what you believe in. It is also a literally accurate implementation of your beliefs, if you believe in Pirsig's MOQ, but it is so grotesque it is polite to call it a parody. See, I was being polite to you. But I don't sound polite anymore because I made a fuss of it. My current behavior lacks aesthetic appeal. You are capable of intuitively perceiving this. But since you believe in Pirsig's MOQ you are compelled to search for an explanation for your intuition from the four boxes Pirsig gave to you. These are labeled "inorganic", "biological", "social" and "intellectual". You just sought for an explanation for your intuition from the box labeled "social". According to Pirsig's MOQ this was the wrong thing to do. Intellect is superior to society so you can't find anything from that box that you could use to point out that there's something wrong about my behavior. From your viewpoint, your intuition of the repugnancy of my behavior is Dynamic Quality! But if you keep experiencing it over and over again it will cease to appear to be so Dynamic. So it should become static. But if you believe in Pirsig's MOQ, this means your intuition should eventually settle down in one of the four boxes provided by Robert Pirsig. And I'm going to keep doing this until you: - Assign my repugnant behavior to a category provided by Pirsig and explain the assignment or: - Assume that you need more categories (which I have provided) so, which one is it going to be? Tuk On 02-Jan-17 14:06, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:Ron, what is so good about society that you would defend it against me? Tuk On 02-Jan-17 13:32, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:Ron,If someone can devote time and effort for researching the purported topic of this mailing list, it is regarded by someone else as a bad thing. That someone else is put off by himself having a job which precludes him from participating except in a mediocre way. However, Phaedrus's aim in ZAMM was not to define or discover or understand mediocrity. It was to understand excellence.Tuk On 02-Jan-17 13:22, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:Please consider what it does to a person not to have a credible intellectual authority as a child. You are implying that I have caused this burden to fall upon me. But I have not caused the ineptitude of others.When you are sick to death of my narcissism, you are sick to death of how insignificant it makes you feel. You think you are entitled to feel better. I think I am also entitled to feel better. But we don't, do we?Is the psychiatrist who put me on pension making a useful contribution to society? If not, why should I?Tuk On 01-Jan-17 18:01, X Acto wrote:Tuk,I guess everyone is being nice to you or ignoring you because you're a "man-child" with out a job or purpose who lives in his parents basement mentally masturbating to what he thinks is his own genius. When in fact he is basing his entire argument on a logical fallacy. You may be a genius when it comes to logical functions but when it comes to critical thinking skills you can't reason yourself out of a wet paper bag. Things aren't quiet because you are right and no one can stand up to your towering intellect . It's that you're so wrong no one has the time or energy to prove it to you and your immense ego.Since I have made a New Years resolution not to get involved in discussions here that I can't devote my full attention to, this tirade is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of your narcissism.Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And have a great new year in the process.-Ron Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]> wrote:The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it. TukOn 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote: Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism is not correct.The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal reality or "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that phenomenal reality is the only reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct everyday experience," "the primary empirical reality," or quotes William James referring to "the immediate flux of reality," and "pure experience" he is talking about phenomenal reality as such.Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite preposterous. Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ or create an alternative without understanding it first.Buyer beware. ________________________________From: Moq_Discuss <[email protected]> on behalf of Adrie Kintziger <[email protected]>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] RhetoricI think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's are notalways what they seem.Some are very deceptive.In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually nothing more than a collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It is spiced andsalted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.The best way of putting it ,in my opinion,is to regard it as a new attempt to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the terminology of a computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a very intelligent thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any way orfield.I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality itself,or add newinsights;it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not shifting up, butin fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it is'nt.You should explore these things, they are less boring than Wittgenstein,and he was notall that clever also.the only part of critics i have is about your statement, "competitor to themoq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko <[email protected]>:Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor to the MOQ and[https://static2.avast.com/11/web/min/i/mkt/share/avast-logo.png]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus> Avast | Download Free Antivirus for PC, Mac & Android<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_the_Universe ***On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does not conform to mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore not real.Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of"things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal reality we perceive. Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as oxymoronic "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal reality, as the onlyreality we can know, is the only reality there is. ***This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the level of ZAMM. It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is romantic quality.Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality. Tuk ---This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.https://www.avast.com/antiviruswww.avast.comProtect your devices with the best free antivirus on the market. 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