>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Feb 23 04:08:28 1999 >Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > by mill.venus.co.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA27457 > for moq_discuss-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:01:28 GMT >Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) > by mill.venus.co.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA27452 > for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:01:25 GMT >Received: from default (dialup-0186.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.144.186]) by mail.iol.ie > Sendmail (v8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00943 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:01:55 GMT >Message-ID: <005501be5f24$815efd20$1f90cbc1@default> >From: "Fintan Dunne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: MD One flew over the Lila Squad >Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:59:21 -0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Dear Fintan, You wrote: >FINTAN COMPARES THIS SQUAD TO GROUP THERAPY UNDER >NURSE RATCHED IN ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST. A most apt comparison, and one that Lithian, another one that flew over the cuckoos nest, had made. However, please remember what that indian did before flying, which was to put his friend, out of his lobotomized misery, and preserve his Dignity. Perhaps you should not leave, just yet, as there is unfinished business? LOL! Best regards Fintan, and please stay in touch! Paul. > >BODVAR WROTE> >FINTAN, Remember the part in LILA where P. says that, like Biology, >Intellect also has an "immune system"; namely psychiatry whose job is to >rectify the heretics wrong ideas? If one person of the LS were to appreciate >Pirsig's ideas on this topic, I would bet on you. Not that I consider you >"mad" - you are the sanest around - but dynamic enough to see radical >departure from SOM's impossible "illness" model. So, I am very much looking >forward to opening a discussion on this most controversial topic ----some >day. > >THEN THIS IS YOUR LUCKY DAY BODVAR, OR IS IT ? > >NURSE RATCHED WAS THE SENIOR WARD SISTER IN THE MOVIE "ONE FLEW OVER THE >CUCKOO'S NEST" Starring: Jack Nicholson, Danny DeVito, and Christopher >Lloyd among others. The movie examined how Nurse Ratched- while masquerading >under the best practice psychiatric model, was actually a control freak for >whom the illness of patients was a lever of power over them. Her favourite >mechanism was having "democratic" votes by the >patients- the outcome being rigged because most of them were docile and >under her control. Jack Nicholson played McMurphy, an exuberant misfit who >paid for his attempts to motivate her victims out of their passivity, by >being given a frontal lobotomy. > >A microcosm of western "democratic" society, in other words. > >Recalling that Robert Pirsig himself ended up in a mental hospital and spoke >in ZAMM about the "lies" you had to tell to get out of there, it is well >worth continuing to examine this. I will continue to do so. I you don't want >to read this then simply go on to another message. But I warn you, I tell it >like it is. > >Hi Nurse Ratched, > >So, can we take a vote on the ward please Nurse Ratched. I vote the topic >should be that we watch we watch the world series on the TV. My name being >Randall P. McMurphy. The disruptive influence who has recently been admitted >to the group/hospital. > >Now, Nurse, I know that many of the patients here are under your control. >What is the game you play in organising this discussion group? The closed >minds will happily play your little discussion/group therapy game Nurse, >FOREVER. 'Cos they don't have the balls to do otherwise. They settle for >intellectual masturbation and so play the role of PROPS in Nurses' little >game. > >The open-minded MOQ thinkers are artists, explorers, originators. >Hat's off to them, I say. THE FREE. >Many of them have left. > >Guess how I vote, for next month. > >I vote to do what the Indian did in the film "One flew over the cuckoos >nest." After seeing McMurphy lobotomised, he tossed a huge water fountain >through a steel shuttered window and jumped through the resulting hole to >freedom. He left Nurse Ratched's domain forever. > >As I an now leaving your domain forever too Nurse. > >Here's why. The game is rigged. I don't like rigged games, Diana. There are >too many closed minds here for real discussion. There is a real life outside >this round and round discussion. There are even real ideas on the MOQ- but >they are not here. Gotta have the balls to walk away. Oh ! people get so so >so dependant on the Squad don't they, so dependant on some joker called >Pirsig. > >Like patients in a mental institution who get so so so dependant on the >institutional lifestyle. It's routine and rhythm. It's monthly votes and >topics. And they are so afraid to walk away. I'm not. Maybe because I had >the originality to develop a new idea like the MoM concept. Y'see that's >what makes the difference in this life between those who run with the mob >and those who change things. Yes, truth is difficult in such a structure >where the ground-rules are being set by a clique. > >The Squad has been haemorrhaging members for over 9 months. The number of >former contributors who are no longer heard from is vast. Like Robinson >Crusoe, the intellectuals actually FEAR socialisation. And the discussion >fails Pirsig's own test: there is no actual philosophy here. Only mime. > >In the late fifties in the USA, in a society dedicated to consumption, a >pampered generation ended up totally rejecting the materialism of their >elders. This was the source of the Classic / Romantic split investigated by >Pirsig in ZAMM. The wheel turns and we are now back again at a similar >point in global society. Everywhere we see blind Scientific Materialism and >a production/consumption ethos. > >The inner is about to meet the outer. > >Those who have walled themselves into a moderated INNER discussion cannot >escape the Outer, for it will pursue them wherever they go. That is the >psychological reality of what is happening in each person's life at this >time. > >So, to the open-minded, may I say thank you very much. I couldn't have done >it without you. Email me with your ideas. I love the way your brains work. > >And can I say, as did Douglas Adams in his book title about >the words spoken by the dolphins as they left the planet earth: > >"So long......and thanks for all the fish ! " > >love > >Fintan > > > > >MOQ Homepage - http://www.moq.org >Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com MOQ Homepage - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
