Hi Robert Stillwell and Group
Some thoughts on your recent post. I apologize in advance if you
take offense by my being brief and direct. I cannot predict the
degree of your "sensitivity" nor control how you will �feel�' about
what I say.
RS writes: "The self is nowhere in the body."
PH: A �self� can be identified by his �body� DNA.
RS: "To each person -- the self is no less than everything."
PH: Agreed. Mine is the only world.
RS: �It is only because we infer that there is more than everything
that there is a self."
PH: "More than everything" is nonsensical. Is more than everything
�everything plus everything else?�
RS: "I feel that the self participates with reality through what can
best be called attention."
PH: Agreed, except I would argue that attention creates reality
rather than participates with it.
RS: "Isn�t it intuitive that there is a glass to be perceived? Isn�t it also
intuitive that I'm not just experiencing it but there is time/space.�
PH: I'm suspicious of using intuition to verify reality. For centuries
intuition said the world is flat, the sun goes around the earth and the
stars are heavenly lights.
RS: "If there is matter AND mind this implies the mind (experience)
cannot be reduced to matter. The problem with SOM is that it does
try to reduce experience to matter.�
PH: Not all who ascribe to SOM are materialists as you suggest.
Idealists try to reduce matter to mind. Both use SOM. Both
acknowledge that �mental" properties (mind) are different from
"physical" properties (matter). Both mind and matter are implicit in
SOM.
RS: "I never said reality is independent (of observation). I just said
reality is separate."
PH: Separate from what? Separate from the observing self? Is not
self real? I thought you were adamant about the reality of self. How
can reality be separate from reality of self?
RS: "Do you believe in psychokenisis? ... With nothing but my
attention I can move my finger."
PH: Yes. I think attention is a key factor in metaphysics. When we
eventually come to agreement it will center on our mutual interest in
the mystery of attention which implies an underlying value structure.
To move your finger you have to want to move your finger as well as
focus your attention on it. �Want� implies a value.
RG: "Quantum physics supports the dualistic empiricism viewpoint.�
PH: No it doesn't. At least some interpretations are monistic. From
Erwin Schroedinger, one of the founders of quantum physics: "The
external world and internal awareness (self, mind, consciousness)
are one and the same thing." (parens added). You can't get dualism
from "one and the same thing."
RS: "I say that if one is sensitive to the entire experience --including
knowledge -- then the one will do the best one can: what one loves."
PH: I have no idea what this means. In your rape example,
sensitivity" seems to mean trying to imagine how another human
being feels. In the statement above, "sensitivity" seems to mean
"follow your bliss." Perhaps you will elucidate on your "morality of
sensitivity" in future posts. I hope so.
RS: "We would not be feeling this animosity right now."
PH: I "feel" no animosity. I judge your thoughts on their premises
and logical merits, not on how I "feel" about them. I assume you're a
nice guy with honest disagreements with the MoQ.
RS: " . . . there is no difference in quality between two selves."
PH: I gather you don't believe in different inherited talents.
RS: (Referring to dualism). "Will you at least concede this is very
practical?"
PH: By all means. We would not survive very long without dualism
because thought depends on it and human survival depends on
thought. Pirsig has no problem with dualism. As he said, you can't
do metaphysics without it. But here's the problem. Your dualism --
external structure/experience -- doesn't explain values. It doesn't
explain quality. It doesn't explain morality. Pirsig's duality --
Dynamic/static quality -- not only explains everything your duality
explains but morality besides. That's why I think it has great value. (-:
Thanks for providing much food for thought. I look forward to your
response.
Platt
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