Greetings,
DAVID;
You are correct that there is a contradiction. I hijacked an argument used earlier to
'prove' SOM
and placed it in this context to prove the 'self.' I don't actually think that it is a
very good
argument, but it does fit the moq very nicely and has been praised before on this
forum. It is often
useful to show people contradictions inherent in their own position and that, rather
than the
establishment of my own position, was my intent. My own position, if it is of
interest, is probably
quite similar to the Buddhist one as I agree with Hume that the self is nothing but a
bundle of
perceptions, forever changing, and I don't believe in a soul or other kind of inactive
spectator
('purusa' as a Buddhist might say). It is the latter (purusa) that the Buddhist notion
of 'anatman'
(no soul) rejects. While classical Hinduism (Samkhya) proposes a mind/soul dualism,
Buddhism rejects
the soul (and with it the dualism) but keeps the mind and proposes that it changes as
rapidly as do
its objects (see Samyutta Nikaya II 94-95) and that, furthermore, it changes together
with its
objects, because the mind and the senses conform to the nature of what they perceive.
(Nyaya Sutras
III 32f). This is essentially the position taken by Western empiricism (especially in
the Humean
tradition). Clearly the self is not removed here, only a particular understanding of
the self. If
one wants to dispose of the self altogether then obviously the free will issue is no
longer an
issue - and along with it responsibility, ethics, self determination, morality and
humanity itself.
Of course nobody with any interest in human affairs would take this position so the
free will
question is still a real one - albeit satisfactorily understood.
JC;
You ask me what I am arguing against as I assert free will. I am arguing for a coherent
understanding of what free will is and against the presumption that determinism and
randomness have
any bearing upon the issue. Our disagreement seems to boil down to whether evidence
and emotional
disposition require us to believe things or whether we can choose not to. Perhaps we
are different
then. Speaking for myself, I cannot choose to believe that my cat created Jupiter
because all the
evidence suggests otherwise. My choosing to believe it did, would not, and could not,
be a genuinely
held belief because the fact that Jupiter has been around a lot longer than my cat
(amongst other
things) is totally conclusive. Granted I could pretend that I believe it, but that is
not the same
thing. Now you may tell me that if you want to you can choose to believe that my cat
did create
Jupiter and, although I would doubt your integrity very much if you insisted that this
was your
genuinely held belief, I might finally concede that perhaps you do have such a choice.
At that point
I would suggest an appointment with the doctor might be in order. It isn't even a case
of me
selecting which evidence to accept. There is no evidence whatsoever that my cat
created Jupiter and
therefore no chance of me selecting such evidence (although it has just come in with
muddy paws. . .
. hmm). If you, or anyone else, can provide me with evidence to the contrary then I
will be forced
to reconsider. Until then I am equally forced to conclude that my cat did not create
Jupiter. I have
no choice. My 'will' is neither here nor there on this issue.
An experiment. You choose to believe that I am a six headed beaver from Lower Mongolia
with the
power to send this e-mail by telepathy. Have you chosen? Great. Now tell me that is
what you really
believe. I put it to you that you can't. You literally have no choice. (Beyond
choosing not to
participate of course. But that is beside the point as I am plainly not arguing
against all forms of
free will)
Struan
------------------------------------------
Struan Hellier
< mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"All our best activities involve desires which are disciplined and
purified in the process."
(Iris Murdoch)
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