Re: MD Dewey/James2

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ROG TO 3WD and ELEPHANT ON JAMES ROG: Excellent summary of James.  Absolutely 1st class.  Especially the comparisons of DQ and Pure Experience. You should consider converting it into a forum article. Some comments: 3WD: Given that D.T. Suziki says that " the most misunderstood aspect of Zen in the West is that it is a religion" I find it ironic that Pirsig, who seems to have promoted and integrated the tenants of a single religious camp (Zen) into his philosophic endeavor,� should be so sensitive to one who is willing to accept them all. But more about the Zen connection later. ROG: I always thought his comment meant it isn't a religion!????? PIRSIG: "Because Quality 'is' morality.� Make no mistake about it.� They're 'identical'.� And if Quality is the primary reality of the world than that means morality is also the primary reality of the world." pg. 111 ROG: Am I the only one that sees this as a distortion of the term morality?   Certainly he makes a good case that morals are Quality, but that doesn't mean that Quality is morality.  It is like saying giraffes are animals, so all animals are giraffes. I have never seen the pragmatism of this statement. Sure he goes on to qualiify the term, but he can never clean this term off of all the baggage --good and bad -- that go with this term. 3WD: If the MoQ is an extension of radical empiricism and pragmatism it should most certainly in some form or another embody "humanism" . Indeed if all Static Qualities are purely "human" constructs I have no quarrel with the above quotes. However when he says "First, there were moral codes that established the supremacy of biological life over inanimate nature" I think he has left the empirical realm, though he may still be in a pragmatic one. ROG: I strongly agree that it is pragmatic.  It is consistent within the metaphysics and consistent with other theories -- as long as a non-traditional interpretation of "moral" is used. (I am wincing now in anticipation of Platt's response!)  Ant's essay in the Quantonics forum deals with this issue.  I posted the web site the other day in the MF. ELEPHANT: Also, I'm not sure that you've yet answered my question� 'What is the "pragmatic mode of selection" by which the idea that "truth is a species of good" is reached?'� Maybe I'm being dim.� I'll go read some James. ROG: According to James "The true is the name of whatever proves itself to be good in the way of belief, and good too for definite, assignable reasons."  He goes on to state that if believing truth led inevitably to terrible outcomes that we would learn to shun the truth. But in general, it doesn't, and there are truths that not only appeal to us, but also are " helpful in life's practical struggles."  He also clarifies that one, if not the most, important aspect of truth is that it harmonize ("not clash") with our other beliefs.   In other words, truth's value is in its value in dealing with life's struggles and in harmonizing with our other truths.  Truths value is Quality. [The above is sketchy, but it is late.  Check out "What pragmatism means.") Rog PS -- I don't think James would approve of an absolute, eternal Platonic truth.  But again, read the selection.....I haven't had time to read your paper yet. PPS -- This is the best month on the MOQ site in at least a year and a half.   AWESOME JOB ALL!!!!