Hi everyone BO wrote The upper level is hidden to the one below, even at the Social- and Intellectual planes. I do - BTW - not think that society is a purely human phenomenon, once the "human" term (in the consciousness sense) enters, the "mind/matter" notion pollutes Pirsig's wonderful idea. RED Hi Bo My understanding is that mind/matter should not pollute the idea as, in ZAMM Pirsig defined mind and matter as being CREATED by quality. He argued that The inconsisency between mind matter and quality was only inconsistent if you viewed things from the subjective/objective idea of the world. By placing quality the creator, the problem does not arise. I think this is chpt 19 ZAMM,around page 250. BO There is a struggle between the levels, but war sounds a bit sinister. I think Danila is right about Intellect wanting to improve Society, yet the intellect-improved-society is not truly social-value- society. RED Why would intellect want to improve SOCIETY? IMO intellect wants to move us towards a purely intellectual plane of existence. How cann it do this by perfecting society? Since we are still in the middle (or perhaps the start) of this transition, it may APPEAR to be seeking to improve society but it seemms unlikely for this to be the case by mere definition of the value planes! BO Society's meddling with life can't add to biological value. The old level's value is fixed forever. RED Really? Look at the effect of nuclear fission and fussion on the inorganic world, is the intellects advancement not compromising the values of the protons, electrons, positronss etc.? Are the lower levels values really fixed? Doesn't this open up the idea of the static frame vs moving picture view of levels?? BO IMO Even Intellect is rigid, but that's another story. RED Perhaps you would like to spin off in this direction? I find your contribution extremely valuable and would like to hear what you think. I have enjoyed our discussions so far and would like them to continue. Kind regards Richard MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
