Hello everyone
>From: "Jonathan B. Marder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: MD The right to bear arms
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:41:52 +0300
>
>Hello libertarians and peace lovers,
>
>Dan, thanks for the useful history lesson. I didn't know the precise
>wording
>before . . .
>[snip]
>
>It looks clear enough to me, Florida court opinion notwithstanding. This
>appears to be a basis for the creation of an armed police force. The right
>is
>given explicitly to "the people", not to individuals.
Hi Jonathan
Some definitions of militia--1. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather
than professional soldiers. 2. A military force that is not part of a
regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military
service.
I am unsure if an armed police force is what the founding fathers had in
mind by "a well regulated Militia." A militia is not a police force or
regular army. They are volunteers, not professionals ("the police being only
members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to
duties"--from your recommendation of Robert Peel's 9 Principles). Every
member of a militia is free to come and go as they chose but they ARE
required to obey the commanding officer as long as they remain part of the
militia.
Professional armed police forces, on the other hand, may make use of
volunteers (what was the name of the group that used to patrol the NY
subways? does anyone remember?) but these volunteers DO NOT have the right
to bear arms in carrying out their duties (which is why that group no longer
patrols, if I'm not mistaken) so properly they cannot be called a militia
either.
There are today those who call themselves "militias" in some of our western
states but to the best of my knowledge most of those are white supremists,
and that is not what our founding fathers had in mind either when they
drafted the 2nd Amendment, in my opinion.
>
>Sir Robert Peel is usually considered the father of modern policing. As a
>minister in the British Government, he championed the idea of a civil
>rather
>than military force for maintaining public order (See his Nine Principles
>http://www.newwestpolice.org/peel.html).
>Peel was main architect of the Peace Preservation Act of 1814 and the
>Metropolitan Police Bill of 1829. Until then, public order was enforced by
>armed or unarmed mercenaries or thugs hired by king, sheriff or local
>strongman.
Very interesting. Thank you for the URL as this is something I was unaware
of.
>
>It seems to me that US Bill of Rights aimed to provide the constitutional
>basis for a police force controlled by the people. Maybe it came before its
>time, because in 1791, Peel was a toddler of 3 years old and hadn't yet
>invented the idea of a police force!!!!
Section 8 of the US Constitution (http://www.usconstitution.com/read.htm)
provides for a police force as well as a militia. Amendment II as part of
the Bill of Rights seems geared more towards the individual, in my opinion
(and in the opinion of at least one judge in Florida too. :))
>
>Particularly significant is the term "well regulated" used by the founding
>fathers. I hold that firearms held by individuals are a menace to society.
>Statistics bear me out - a private firearm is more likely to harm than
>protect
>its owner or a loved one. This is very different from firearms carried by
>members of a well regulated force.
I tend to agree with you on ownership of firearms. I don't like them and too
many innocents die in accidental shootings. Perhaps guns are the negative
face of Quality?
>
>I should add, the above opinions come from someone who is NOT a US citizen
>and never resided in the US.
And as I have never resided outside the US I appreciate being able to
discuss these ideas with you and look forward to hearing from others who
live outside the US. Thank you for your reply.
Dan
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