[x] Most of the emphisis of native belief rests strongly with connections to the ancestors. The elderly are valued and revered and play an Active role in the society. The deceased ancestors are every bit as real. I see the connection Of Zen bhuddism and "Amerindian" Culture is that they both value the idea that all things are sacred, everything is holy so therefore there is no one thing which Is holier than another or "no thing is holy", the "Indian giver" analogy Pirsig was fascinated by how "Indian" culture treated the S/O distinction which is quite differently. They really did'nt see things as "mine" and "yours" they had a more communal sense of belongings.
[Case] Reverence for ancestors would make Native Americans a bit more like Confucians than Zenners wouldn't it? The modern era is unique in that it is possibly the first to be able to disregard the wisdom of the elders, I think. In that last bit you are not hinting at communism are you? You are not suggesting that the Red Men were Reds, are you? Hope Platt doesn't see this. [x] I would argue that the totality of modern knowledge is built on the objective knowledge of their elders and could stand Alittle wisdom along with it. It's tough to draw zen comparisons between the two, what stands out is the informality Of the native society, it places care on the individual tribe member, yes, a type of communism, if it ever worked well it worked For the native peoples I think communism failed because of the heavy objectifcation of western thought, seems to be working Nicely with a dash of democracy for the chinease. I wonder if it's because of their more subjective culture? [case] But what you are pointing here does seem to have been common to many native peoples. The chief was often the poorest member of the tribe since he was honor bound to provide for any who sought his aid. The potlatch of the northwestern tribes comes to mind. [x] I think Lila was the Amerindian in the story, in spirit, she represented a wild dynamic passionate element untameable, she relied on her ancestor Her uncle and her deceased dog from the spirit world for power..she was kinda a 20th century urban metaphor for the Indian element "Intellect is slave to the passions". The "Brujo" in the story if you will. If you read it in this frame it changes the "floosy" perception of the character and you see Pirsig playing out the static-dynamic flux between the characters of "the captin" And "lila". The "Male/female" and you see the caution in the message too. [Case] I don't think I ever really considered the story in the light but it is worth thinking about. I tend to see Lila as the Amerindian story that might have been. [x] When I read the beginning of Lila and saw how he mentioned how the book was to revolve around his sweat lodge expierience, then he was stuck. "He thought that maybe if he did some reading in the field of anthropology he might know better what to ask the Indians. So he said goodbye for a while and drove from the hot plains up into the Rocky Mountains near Bozeman. At the college there, now a university, he took out the best books he could find on anthropology, then drove up to an old remote campground near the timberline and settled down to do some reading. He hoped to stay there until he had some kind of plan for a book sketched out. It felt good to be back in the stunted pines and wild flowers and chilly nights and hot days again. He enjoyed the ritual of getting up in the morning in the freezing camper, turning on the heat, and then going for a jog up a mountain trail. When he came back for tea and breakfast the camper would be all warm and he could settle down to a morning of reading and note-taking. It could have been a great way to do a book but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. What he read in the anthropology texts slowed him down more and more until it stopped him. Phaedrus saw with disbelief at first and then with growing anger that the whole field of anthropology was rigged and stacked in such a way that everything he had to say about Indians would be unacceptable. There was no question about it. Page after page kept making it clearer and clearer that there was no way he could continue. He could write a totally honest, true and valuable book on the subject, but if he dared call it anthropology it would be either ignored or attacked by the professionals and discarded. Very formidable. First you say things our way and then we'll listen to you. Phaedrus had heard it before. What it always means is that you have hit an invisible wall of prejudice. Nobody on the inside of that wall is ever going to listen to you; not because what you say isn't true, but solely because you have been identified as outside that wall. Later, as his Metaphysics of Quality matured, he developed a name for the wall to give it a more structured, integrated meaning. He called it a 'cultural immune system.' But all he saw now was that he wasn't going to get anywhere with his talk about Indians until that wall had been breached. There was no way he was going to make any contribution to anthropology with his non-credentials and crazy ideas. The best he could do was mount a careful attack upon that wall. In the camper he did less and less reading and more and more thinking about the problem." [X] ENTER LILA a way to explore the concept without getting caught up in the indian thing, a "wall breacher" . "That idea that anthropology has no values Phaedrus marked down in his mind as the 'spot.' That was the place where the wall could best be breached. No values, huh? No Quality? This was the point of focus where he could begin an attack. What many were trying to do, evidently, was get out of all these metaphysical quarrels by condemning all theory, by agreeing not to even talk about such theoretical reductionist things as what savages do in general. They restricted themselves to what their particular savage happened to do on Wednesday. That was scientifically safe all right - and scientifically useless." moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
