Mark, Case, Quoting Leslie "life is parasitical on entropy" I like that. I didn't get into this thread earlier. Personally I also subscribe to the view that life and intelligence create a "negative entropy gradient", but entropy is such a nebulous concept to start with (a statistical macro-scale view of many complex micro-scale outcomes) that it's hard to see views like this as anything but approximate (sloppy) metaphors, even if I believe them for practical purposes.
Ian On 2/4/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <snip> > > [Case] > I think you should think about this a while. I have not been very accurate > in describing entropy. I was working around the points you were making and > taking liberties in the process. But I would say you are getting close. I > have always thought your stuff with the sweet spot and coherence and all are > close they just need to shift up a notch. What you just said here about > boundaries. Boundaries are where things get interesting. For example what is > the boundary between the inorganic and biological. I would like to call it > carbon chemistry but not all organic chemistry is living. Viruses are seen > as the most primitive life forms but they are little more than DNA and > protein. Any time you draw a distinction the edges are fuzzy. > > Mark 04-02-07: Hi Case, > On page 119 of John Leslie's, 'Infinite Minds' he suggests that life is > parasitical on entropy. > I like the way he puts that, but being a parasite is a long way from > disobedience. > > <snip> > > [Case] > No problem at all. Believe me I understand. > > Many years ago I read Jeremy Rifkin's book Entropy. I remember thinking, > "this is Wrong!" Wrong in a moral as well as actual sense. > > This is called denial; then came anger. Then I tried to figure a way out of > it. Then I was depressed. It took years but I followed Kubler-Ross to the > letter and you know, it's not so bad. > > What's bad is that, all this original source... where did it all come > from... seeking after a unity... Perfect order is a single point where all > is one and before that point? ...Nothing. From perfect order to perfect > disorder; ashes to ashes. > > But these things are really only troublesome if you insist on thinking in > "ultimate" terms. Ultimately, schmultimately! It has been at least 13 > billion years since the point of perfect order. The estimated time until > perfect disorder is something like 10 with 150 zeros after it. > > Life as we know it took 4 billion years to get here. That is a lot of time. > > All we really need to know is that it has been this way a really long time > and it is not going anywhere soon. As long as the inorganic level remains > static the biological level has something to play with. > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
