[Mark] >From an moq perspective there are four levels of patterns at work here: 1. The inorganic is increasing in thermal entropy/disorder. (By the way, you recently rejected entropy as a measure of disorder.)
[Case] If the levels work fine, if not, oh well. I am not sure why I rejected this but I am not a physicist, I don't even play one on TV. [Mark] 2. Biological patterns parasitising thermal entropy for an increase in information order. [Case] Biological patterns don't parasite entropy they transform energy and some gets lost along the way as a sort of entropy tax. Mark 12-02-07: Hello Case, This is most interesting because what you are saying is very close, it seems to me, to stating that a Dickens novel is made of paper and Ink. It surely can be, and certainly was as a first edition (when collected into novel form) but the novel is more than paper and ink. DNA is a mass/energy combination but its structure is more than mass/energy. [Mark] 3. There is no acknowledgement of social patterns in Hawking's account, which is unsurprising. However, Hawking does not exist in a socially conditioned vacuum. [Case] Hawking is not concerned with societies but if you look at the growth in complexity of societies, it follows from an increased ability to use and transform energy. From fire to agriculture and domestic animals to water wheels to steam to internal combustion societies have become increasing complex through the transformation of energy. Mark 12-02-07: To extend the Dickens novel analogy this is a bit like saying his novels are now available on CD-ROM. [Mark] 4. The intellectual patterns of science. Note the paradigm employed by Hawking delineates between energy and information. [Case] Ian or Arlo would be better able to comment on this. I tend to think the information metaphor is over used and can be misleading but then I don't have that firm a grip on the concept. Mark 12-02-07: Fair play to you. [Mark] No. 6: What do you want? No. 2: In-Form-ation. No. 6: Well, you won't get it! No. 2: By hook or by crook we will. (followed by manic laughter). [Case] I don't get it. (followed by confused but polite laughter). Mark 12-02-07: You mean? You mean to say? You mean to say that you have NEVER seen, 'The Prisoner' staring the enigmatic Patrick McGoohan? Be seeing you. Mark _http://www.netreach.net/~sixofone/_ (http://www.netreach.net/~sixofone/) moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
