Mr. Skutvik, Language has been fascinating me also. The fact that I myself, tend to reason and intellectualize in english In my head, has lead me to theorize that language is deeply embeded in intellectualized thought, when I see the word "stop", I hear the word in my head. I leads one to ask the question: is it that intellect is embedded in language?. Mans thirst for knowledge, or more accuratly, to be as god, lead them to be expelled from eden As the myth goes,But this was after everything was named, for after language to name came language to intellectualize Opposites appeared eden was gone, And death realized. Language, you and I seem to have been drawn to Pirsigs work for similar reasons.. I thank you for your response. -Ron
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 3:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] mystical awareness and intellectual explantions Ron and All On 6 March you wrote: > Mr. Skutvik, > I was touring your web page and reading your work, I appreciate your > painting style by the way the impressionistic realism evokes mood and > atmosphere with your masterful brush strokes, I'd like to know more > about your thoughts regarding the cow, you mention something about > Animals being imortal because they are not able to percieve death. If > I may ask, could you Expand on this? Thank you -x How to go about this without merely repeating that part of my essay? As told I was a little philosopher from my earliest age, but to proceed to my late twenties - early sixties of the century - it reached some climax with a kind of epiphany (one never knows what the real article is). Recently I tried to tell Case about it, but its next to impossible to convey such an experience, anyway, it was a sudden insight that our reality is language, not suspended in - or based on -, or just - but LANGUAGE. It was no conclusion of any previous argument or thoughts, but struck out of the blue with total conviction. Why/how cows entered this was my childhood fasciation with these inscrutable animals. Perhaps all animals are inscrutable but cats and dogs f.ex. signals some responses. If you gaze at a dog it looks away as if embarrassed, but in a cow's eye no recognition of anything is found. Well, after the insight it was passed on to these animals I had felt so sorry for in my childhood because of their ignorance of their own fate and indifference whether in the meadow or their way to the slaughterhouse. Because they were outside language they were outside death too, immortal so to say. I later expanded this to ourselves: We might die but we cant be dead, because "to be" indicates existence ...and some more of such. In fact I still regard it as valid. Language indicates some an impression of a non-existent existence. Perhaps from where the catholic "limbo" stems. We speak of a recent deceased person as if being dead, not quite at the far side, but by and by their new status is becoming more normal, for instance, we don't look on historic figures as "dead", their post-life status is their proper state. OK, my obsession with this made me speak endlessly about it, but after many blank stares and friendly advice not to dwell on things like that, I didn't speak so much but thought about it no less. And now another complication occurred. Some other problems of mine - this I pass over - lead to a an anxiety attack, and my fears found a focus in my speculations: They were the reason for my illness! And now I really was in limbo, trying to avoid my thoughts from wandering into the field that immediately evoked my fears. This was 1968 and many years of this followed, but then in 1977 I found Pirsigs "Zen ..." and things changed, finally a fate similar to my own. Even if Pirsigs Quality insight and my own Language don't immediately match I recognized it immediately, and I became a Pirsig fan to say the least. Subject/object metaphysics NOT being realitys ground was what evoked insights like mine about absolutes beyond. SOM confronts you with two incompatible alternatives - all is mind or mind a by-product - none acceptable, thus my Language was a variety of Quality and I happily accepted Pirsig's version and eagerly awaited his next book. >From ZMM I had sensed how he would finish off SOM by the lethal grip he had fastened on it (identifying it as the "intellectual" - or Classic - part of the proto moq) but when LILA arrived none of this happened. The Romantic/Classic becoming Dynamic/Static was just perfect , and so were the static levels, but "intellect" (the level) were no longer the S/O, rather SOM had become a faulty idea of an idea-intellect. And what's more, Quality was not part of the MOQ, the metaphysics was just another intellectual pattern . Not that I saw these things at first glance, but after a year of the "Lila Squad" I launched the SOLQI idea, that since has been my mission incomplete. Why Pirsig let his world-shaking idea down in favor of the bland version embraced by som many as an affirmation of their pre- conceived New Age leaning, I will never know. For a long time I thought he had found it too radical and - you know sailing around, hammering away on his new book not knowing if a single person would understand the first thing - wanted to tune it down, but (my reasoning went on ...) when he saw that someone had grasped the idea he would open up. But this was vanity, in "Lila's Child" it was clear that he did not endorse the SOL - didn't even understand it - rather, in later letters - to Paul Turner f.ex. - he tuned SOM down to some irrelevant episode that hardly matters. Well, here I go again. This was more than you asked for Ron. Regarding cows they ARE immortal in a MOQ light too, Biology as such is immortal, death entered with the social level. The paleontologists say that the one sure sign of an awareness of death is burial rituals, which reveals the social wish/will of continuity beyond. Enough Bo moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
