Case: I was cleaning out my mailbox and nearly threw away your fine relpy to Matt. For whatever its worth, reading it was like hearing a really good song. I nearly tapped my foot. I'm very impressed.
And mostly I agree with it too. Makes me wonder what else I've missed in all those unread e-mails. >From: "Case" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [MD] Mystics, Brains -- Matt has a question >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:46:34 -0500 > >Matt, > >If I missed touching on something, there was a lot to touch on. Feel free >to >bring it up again. But I am sure I can count on you for that. > >Anyway, after restating my position you took up an argument with Dewey. >Somewhere in between you complained of my enthusiasm for figurative >science. >Others have mentioned the poverty of modern metaphors and to all such I >say: > >If you have trouble seeing scientific metaphors perhaps you should take >some >Kleenex to your glasses. Or maybe you need to change them. They obviously >aren't rose colored. Here we are on the information superhighway and you >would have us stranded with inadequate metaphors. Our metaphors are on life >support. Some are DOA. > >And the ones remaining are just spinning their wheels. Its like they've run >out of gas. Wishing they had two lane blacktop, blue skies and a full tank. >The thrill of the open road. Pontiac: Fuel for the Soul. Some just wish >they >could do it in a Bentley. > >But No! We turn phrases you have to be a rocket scientist to understand. >They are nerdy metaphors. > >Fictional metaphors? Now those babies are sleek as satin in nylons. Spike >healed symbols wound up tight. Fuel injected jet setters that can stop on a >dime and do figure eights. > >At least the religious metaphors are under lock and key. All that guilt had >me reaching for Valium. All that ritual was like a broken record. But you >change the channel and Elmer Gantry becomes just another test pattern. > >These scientific metaphors have such learning curves! But still, the >average >guy is smarter that half the people he sees. So with everything gravitating >toward to the lowest common denominator, he has a better than even chance >at >Pi in the sky; plus or minus. > >If we are to be restricted to figures of speech that relate only to the >products of science, you are right, I am not sure how far we can push them. >They are fine if you want to know exactly when the setting sun will fire >the >sky with crimson glory; or if you are staring down a cue stick about to >bank >an eight ball. We live and work in rooms that declare the triumph of >Euclid. > > >But if we apply them literally look at the trouble they cause! The vision >of >pure mathematics made an idealist out of Plato. It made Newton deny the >holy >trinity and declare the unity of God. Einstein could not bear to see it >marred by chance. > >In some situations science is irrelevant in some it is not. In fact you can >just about forget about it until your Viagra pill starts working longer >than >four hours. All of a sudden it is time to start thinking about hard >science. >Situations change hell, mood changes. What constitutes a good time to >change >metaphors changes. But like underwear, sooner or later you gotta change >them. > >Art historians and critics can say whatever they want but if they say the >earth is flat they can not expect to be taken seriously. In that sense >science places limits on art history and criticism. When Einstein was >offended by quantum theory it was not his aesthetics that prevailed. > >Gladwell's book Blink begins with the example of art historians disputing >the authenticity of a rare Greek statue. Those who relied chiefly on >science >declared it original. Others who relied on gut feeling said no. As it >turned >out the nay sayers were right. But ultimately the decision was resolved >with >more scientific tests. > >You said, "Pirsig wants us to think twice before going all buck wild over >physics." Perhaps but that is a far cry from, "Free at last, free at >last..." > >Wisdom is knowing when to pay attention to what. > >All I have ever said here is the science is my favorite way of thinking >about things. I have mainly argued against is the idea that somehow >mysticism can tag team with science to throw theism out of the ring and >smash it with a folding chair. > >But when explanations of "why" intrude on the "what" and "how" of things, >generally trouble ensues. > >You say much the same thing. "If something under the heading of "mysticism" >attempts to forward an assertion that is meant as a _competitor_ to an >assertion coming out of the heading of "science," then yes, it matters." >I'll buy that. > >But when an epileptic claims, after a seizure, to have experienced profound >insight similar to those of mystics or when madmen claim to speak to God >neurological effects might be good things to consider. > >Regarding your agreement with Paul Turner to stress, "...stress the >importance of, _we_ do not _have_ static patterns, our minds do not have >metaphors, we _are_ static patterns--our minds _are_ metaphors." Could you >massage that a little and _explain_ what those _ _s mean. > >I don't know what your problem with "representation" is but to me it means >our memories and models of the future. These are in a feedback loop with >immediate sense impressions. They are right out there on the cutting edge >of >experience. What we see and what we remember is what we are, uh >metaphorically speaking. > >I gotta go Nuke diner. > >Case > > >moq_discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
