Hi Craig I think Pirsig's original descriptions are a little misleading, if we are MOQ purists about this, the confusion evaporates. The hot stove is only "a hot stove" at the point of interaction, it is not a static pattern of any type until experienced. So in the moment of experience the dynamic qualities of the interaction are actualised into static patterns. They are of decidedly low biological value but this is an externally imposed intellectual classification and is entirely incidental to the patterns themselves.
A "decision" of any type is a crystallisation of dynamic awareness into a static pattern of thought (an idea), simpler decisions are also crystallisations from dynamic awareness but into static patterns that are manifest as for example movements or complex behaviours, rather than as ideas. The crystallisation from DQ into static patterns will occur create patterns of all levels simultaneously. Experience creates hot stove vs skin, and creates a biological response (scream, leap), experience also creates a hot stove vs an intelligence and produces a quick analysis of best routes for future avoidance, quickest route to durable position of safety etc.. The iterative process you describe below I agree with absolutely, as successive layers of static intellectual patterns are created, they form the evolving intelligence that continues to be created by further experience. Free will vs automation: Surely its a sliding scale? With increasing complexity of factors, an increased number of morally valid permutations of static patterns will be created by the experience. Where the response is biological there are limited degrees of freedom, where its intellectual the morality of that level permits a much broader response range. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 27 March 2007 06:18 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] experience > > > [Craig previously] > > What test would support or refute Pirsig's position? > > > Case, > I was hoping that other MOQers would jump in here. Maybe > they've all been through this before. Or maybe they're > letting us stew in our own juices. > If (a) touching a hot stove & backing away is following > Dynamic Quality & (b) calculating whether one can escape > through a burning room is being controlled by static > patterns, I can't see why (a) is an instance of free will but > not (b). > > Perhaps, as you suggested, free will lies in the feedback > mechanism. If we make a decision without deliberation, it is > a result of whatever mix of influences & moods currently > exist within us. But this decision is itself something new > to consider that did not exist before. If in realizing what > this decision is, we reconsider it, a different decision > might be made. But if conditions C result in decision D1, > why would C + D1 result in decision D2? > Craig > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. > On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by > the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service > supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with > MessageLabs. > In case of problems, please call your organisational IT Helpdesk. > The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed > service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM > Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality > mark initiative for information security products and > services. 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