Hello,

I suppose that saying Dynamic Quality is the source itself seems to define
it (because it's tagged as a "source", as in being different from a "result"
or "effect" or "product"), though it is acceptable to me to say that about
DQ for purposes of practicality and less-remote understanding.

The intellectual static patterns are, I presume, the source of ego, although
its purpose could be to facilitate social static patterns.

I see the division of Quality into DQ and SQ as a division between finity
and infinity, although owing to my computer scientificness I initially
understood it as being a division parallel to information and computation
(as DQ is the source of change, and SQ are patterns that "stay").

Akshay

On 4/5/07, Dan Glover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone
>
> >From: "Hamilton Priday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [MD] Art of Value
> >Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:53:20 -0500
> >
> >Greetings Akshay, and Hello Dan --
> >
> >I've just had some off-line conversation with Case, who has expressed
> >concern about my temporary absence  due to a computer crash.  (He's
> proved
> >to be a true gentleman after all!)  Well, I'm still here, and I couldn't
> >resist commenting on how pathetic is this idea of "leaving a legacy" as
> the
> >only hope of human transcendence.
>
> Hi Ham
>
> Good to see you back! Thank you for writing.
>
> >
> >Akshay wrote:
> > > There's an interesting Chinese proverb saying that the way a person
> >lives
> > > after death is by his legacy. The MoQ proves this so brilliantly. The
> > > legacy is [what] a person's static patterns leave over other patterns
> > > [and]
> > > are the way those static patterns survive. Within, say, social
> patterns,
> > > I believe there are types of sub-patterns. There are patterns for
> envy,
> > > for affection, for flattering, et cetera.
> >Ham:
> >Surely a philosophy founded on value should suggest a plausible
> connection
> >of the individual to "the primary source of empirical reality."  Are we
> to
> >assume that we "live after death in the 'static patterns' we leave to our
> >survivors?"   If this is our link to reality, of what value is it to us
> OR
> >our survivors?   I see the deficiency of the MoQ as its failure to make
> >this
> >connection.  We mortals are swept along in the wave of DQ, but in the end
> >it
> >is the wave -- not us -- that prevails.  So where is the morality in this
> >scenario, and what is the point of cognizant existence?  Without that,
> >"evolving to betterness" has no essential meaning.
>
> Dan:
> I believe the MOQ (along with Buddhism) sees the "individual" as an empty
> concept, literally a figure of speech. There is no connection to be made.
> In
> the MOQ, reality is experience. The MOQ subscribes to pure empiricism, but
> there is no primary source as such.
>
> >
> >[Akshay]:
> > > By the way, the phrase "life after death" is a contradiction speaking
> > > strictly logically.
> >
> >[Dan]:
> > > Yes it is. I believe the question was: does consciousness survive the
> > > death
> > > of the brain. To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet identified
> >what
> > > consciousness is or where (or if) it is located in the brain. Does the
> > > brain
> > > act as a kind of antenna for consciousness? No one knows. If the brain
> >is
> > > indeed the seat of consciousness then when the brain dies, so does
> > > consciousness. But if the brain acts as an antenna, then perhaps
> > > consciousness survives in some fashion that we as living beings are
> >unable
> > > to comprehend. It is I suppose a mystery that only the dead share.
> >Ham:
> >My answer would be that the brain functions as the "instrument" of
> >conscious
> >awareness.  What we experience is filtered by the brain and nervous
> system
> >so that our value-sensibility is limited to a differentiated perspective
> of
> >objective otherness.
>
> Dan:
>
> The MOQ would say that we use what it terms a static filter to sift
> experience. The "Cleveland harbor effect" comes to mind.
>
> >Ham:
> >This orients the finite creature to its finite world,
> >a useful and necessary orientation for co-existence with Nature.  It's
> also
> >what undiscerning people call "the real world."  But to equate the
> >cause-and-effect dynamics of finite objects with ultimate reality is
> >intellectually naive.
> >If Quality (or Value) is the source of finitude, as Pirsig seems to be
> >saying, isn't it more plausible that this source is "uncreated" and
> >absolute?
>
> Dan:
> I don't recall Robert Pirsig saying Quality is the source of finitude.
> Perhaps it might be said that static quality is finitude. Dynamic Quality
> is
> the source as long as it is remembered to keep it concept-free.
>
> >Ham:
> >Isn't it more logical that the multiplistic "patterns of quality"
> >that we are
> >attuned to in existence ultimately relate to the Oneness of our Creator?
>
> Dan:
> I think the MOQ would say the individual invents the ficticous self so in
> a
> sense we are our own creators.
>
> >Ham:
> >I find it remarkable that the concept of a transcendent source is
> >inimicable
> >to postmodern philosophy.  By rejecting a primary source beyond finitude,
> >we
> >prevent the kind of workable ontology that could make the MoQ a
> meaningful
> >breakthrough in contemporary Western Philosophy.
>
> Dan:
> Dynamic Quality is beyond definition thus beyond finitude, if you will. I
> think the MOQ would say it is important to stay away from concepts in the
> sense that you seem to be suggesting, however.
>
> >Ham:
> >I wonder if its author has ever considered the humanistic value of
> leaving
> >such a "legacy", instead of an unresolved enigma.
>
> Dan:
> I cannot speak for Mr. Pirsig but writing 2 novels seems a fine legacy,
> imo.
>
> Thank you for reading,
>
> Dan
>
>
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