Bo and all: >From page 274... "This conflict (the overthrow of society by intellect) explains the driving force behind Hitler not as an insane search for power but as an all-consuming glorification of social authority and hatred of intellectualism. His anti-Semitism was fueled by anti-intellectualism. His hatred of communists was fueled by anti-intellectualism. His exaltation of the German volk was fueled by it. His fanatic persecution of any kind of intellectual freedom was driven by it." Specifically, I refer to this quote in order to disagree with notion that Nazism and Fascism are based on ideas. In other words, I think right-wing reactionary movements are not intellectual at all. They represent the social level striking back at the intellectual level, they are counter-revolutionaries trying to restore the old order. Like the Victorians, they might employ the services of intellecuals for purposes of prestige and power, but only if it served their social values to do so. (like rocket scientists and such) In the broader sense, Pirsig's big idea here is that the history of the 20th century is all about the struggle between the social and intellectual levels. And I think he's is quite right to view fascism as a reaction by the social level. It ain't over yet. I think we can see the same struggle in today's headlines. The fight for Elian, for example, was waged by little Havana's anti-communists and the father's legal bills were paid by an organization that can rightly be described as anti-Fascist or anti-anti-conmmunist. Pirsig says this conflict was most strongly felt in Europe, but I think there are plenty of American fascists too. Ever watched the FOX news channel? Ba Dump Bump. : ) I think we have to be honest and admit that freedom could lose and each of us has a certain responsibility and a role to play as the struggle unfolds. I mean, it is not just a matter of understanding the nuts and bolts of some abstraction, the battle between social and intellectual values is real enough and it matters what we do. As I see it, Fascism and other authoritarian impulses are on the wrong side of evolution and are essentially an attempt to go backward. I've said more than you really asked here, but thought a larger frame might help. You also asked if I regarded Greek or Nordic or Indian mythology the same as the "many intellectual traditions" that I'd mentioned. No. However, it is precisley BECAUSE there are different mythologies, cultures and languages that we get the various intellectual traditions. In SODV he reminds us that "we are suspended in language" and in Lila he tells us that Descartes thinks only because there is French culture. The main idea is that we can see a variety of thought systems because intellectual patterns are formed in the context of the culture out of which they arise. (One of the main problems with SOM is that it thinks otherwise. It thinks ideas are not culturally determined and otherwise misunderstands intellect's connection to the rest of reality, as in the mind/body problem, all of which creates a lonliness of cosmic proportions.) The East is the furthest removed from our own culture and that makes it a little easier to see. I think we can rightly say they have non-SOM intellectual patterns.As far as understand the nature of the "mind", they're way ahead of us. And that understanding is intellectual, even scientific in some sense of the word, but it isn't SOM and they have a profound respect for so-called "subjective" states. The West has nuclear weapons and rockets that go to the moon. We've explored outwardly. But the East is equally advanced in the other direction. their discovery has been inward, so to speak. Also there is the matter of non-SOM ideas even in the West. I think the MOQ is a set of non-SOM intellectual patterns. It takes some extra effort for us Westerners to overcome the gravity of SOM, but it doesn't require a transcendence of the intellectual level so much as overcoming a linguistic and cultural bias, which is more of a social level thing. I think we all agree about the intellectual level allowing freedom from the social level, but in addition to the old myths and gods that level includes a whole host of other things. There is the language with its conceptual categories, the traditions and habits, forms of organiztion and lots of other stuff. I think Intellectual static patterns is a much, much smaller category, so to speak. Most of what goes on in our hearts and minds is social and we have just a little intellectual frosting on top of it all. Sort of. Depends on the individual. More Catholic than the Pope? Ha! I like that. To have a creative imagination at the intellectual level is really where its at. That's the cutting edge and its where we want to be. But, my friend, I think SOLAQI alters the MOQ in a way that the MOQ does not need. I think it solves a problem that doesn't exist, you know? Also it seems that the role and rights of individuals is very much a part of the struggle to transcend social values. We may disagree about the role of "objectivity" in this fight, however. Its a process of individuation wherever you see it at all, but I don't think the process necessarily needs SOM or objectivity. And by the way, SOM has served that process well in the West. SOM ain't all bad. But it has run it course, its job is done and now its time to move on. Speaking of moving on... I've been talking to Diana and offered to leave. She thinks its a pretty good idea and so I'll probably be un-subscribed by the time this is posted. (wild cheers) May each and every one of you have an ego-shattering, mind-blowing, life-altering, mystical experience. (Its kinda like a prayer.) Thanks for everything. Feel free to drop a line. DMB ------- End of forwarded message ------- MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
