Mark B. and Horse & MOF
Mark B. wrote:
> Horse wrote:
> A Giant in MoQ terms is (simply put) some pattern of
> values created by Social value of which a City is but
> one instance.
> A Giant can be a University or a Corporation or a
> Government or whatever Social pattern utilises
> biological patterns for its own ends. Are Giants
> limited to _Human_ Social patterns or do other
> instances exist ( beehives, termite mounds etc)?
I am in complete agreement with Horse about cities being only one
social manifestation. As to the question whether anthills and
beehives are "societies" I think they belong to the interface
between the social and biological level (there are such
indeterminable areas between all levels, for instance between
matter and life) and would like to call that kind of bio-societies
"giants" rather than the human cohabitations. Animal flocks, fish
schools and bee colonies etc. tend to take on the life of its own -
like an organism.
Somewhere Pirsig says something like: "All levels started as
protective means for the parent level, but eventually went off on a
purpose of their own". Strangely, a beehive may look even more
"social" than a human organization, but its more of a biological
protective means than freedom FROM biology. We must not lose
sight of that aspect of the MOQ.
> An MoQ Giant is all-powerful- a 'superorganism' which
> employs lower social patterns- the farmer's hired
> hands- to exploit biological value. These hired
> hands supply accumulated biological energy or
> sustenance for the Giant. In Ch.17, Phaedrus recalls
> an earlier manifestation of a lower social pattern in
> his own life when a large chemical firm offered jobs
> for his fellow college graduates:
All powerful! A city? It has a superior even: the greatest "giant" we
know: the state? Yes, Pirsig speaks about New York City as he
walks from the publisher's office to the hotel, but I don't think it has
any particular MOQ significance. The giant idea is very SOMish: a
super-organism with a supermind. The citizen consume food (If that
is what you have in mind speaking about employing farm hands?)
not the city. Social values' real struggle with biology are the
members who are of both levels and torn between them. Live stock
animals are solidly within the biological realm and not affected by
society.
Society "devouring" life is not eating, but rather demanding
"sacrifice", like firemen or police officers are expected to risk their
lives, or the state (the great consumer) demanding soldiers to die
for its own protection. Of course intellect covers it all with its own
value glazing of individual rights, but nowhere do we see the social
value enormous power than in catastrophies - and that intellect is a
superstructure on it.
Thanks for writing so interestingly everyone
Bo
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
