David B. and Group.
Thanks for actually READING LILA. I have a bad tendency to drop
the book (why? I KNOW what P has written!) to indulge in my own
writing instead.
And yet the Giant part is not my favourite - at least not where it is
located in the book. As I see it, it is more of a MOQ primer than a
MOQ tenet, and should have appeared much earlier. If anyone has
read my "Quality Event" I tell about my own "Giant" insight
cantered around the cows on our farm. It was almost an exact
replica of Pirsig's, and it did disturbed me considerably at the time.
But I found the Quality idea a RELIEF from it, not a confirmation.
> SOMe TROUBLE
> "The metaphysics of substance makes it difficult to see the Giant."
I know this is Pirsig speaking, yet it's the Substance Metaphysics
that requires a Giant. A (biological) living monster WITH a mind of
its own. According to the MOQ the social level is mightier than the
biological level and our biological values are "cowed" by it, but we
perceive social value too. The Giant is my social self, no quasi-
biological monster that the SM invites us to see.
> "A metaphysics of substance makes us think that all evolution stops
> with the highest evolved substance, the physical body of man. It makes
> us think that cities and societies and thought structures are all
> subordinate creations of this physical body of man."
This is just true, and should have been the opening chapter of LILA.
> Isn't Pirsig telling us that our metaphysical assumptions (SOM) are
> nearly blind to this level of reality? Even more, this unseen social
> level is more evolved than biological man, which has been mistakenly
> seen as the height of creation. In this case, it's no wonder that the
> nature of the Giant is in dispute.
He is, and you are right in noting the social-/biological man
distinction. The SOM is blind to ALL levels in a MOQ sense, but
the refusal of social value is most ostensible. The MOQ says that
any level is most occupied by subduing the next lower one, which
means that Intellect's "natural born enemy" is social value and
sees it as something evil: a monster. Again does the SOM/intellect
identity become painfully clear.
The rest of your message where you quote Chapter !7
demonstrates that the Giant idea once had been terribly important
to young Bob Pirsig, and that he could not resist including it in his
book.
> Long before they made "The Graduate" Jesus turned over the money
> tables and said it was easier for a camel and all that. The Buddha
> gave up all his money, power and celebrity. Of Alexander the Great
> they asked "what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world, but
> lose his soul?" There ain't nothing new about selling out or knowing
> the difference between truth and riches. Unlike the days of Socrates,
> we don't have to be heroic or divine. The intellectual level is well
> established and we have a static place to go when we want to go beyond
> the Giant.
Right! Intellectual value has long since overlaid social value so we
need not be heroic to protest (Marco's) municipal authorities or
Microsoft. God! It's more of the opposite. Everybody visualize
themselves as puppets up against all kinds of evil Giants. And as
you notice: it's intellect - always intellect - out to grind its axe.
Why are WE blind to Intellectual tyranny?
> We've got Goerthe's Faust and Miller's dead saleman. In
> other words, there's just no excuse for corporate whores.
Faust! Hmm. Haven't seen that connection. Tell us more.
> What is your personal relationship to the Giant? Does it >
consume your
> life? Does it reward you? Have you found a way to break free?
Funny, I have never felt oppressed by society, but all the more by
intellect. God! It came to me this very moment. Now I understand
why the MOQ fascinates me so much and why everything looks
trite in comparison. It is liberation from the intellectual
MONSTER!!!! Breaking free from society is peanuts these days,
but breaking free from intellect/SOM is the new heroism. That's
why Pirsig's ideas are shunned by all "intellectuals". Phew!
Another epiphany. Thanks David B. for switching me on to it.
Bo
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
