Hi All, First off, some mixed metaphorical praise for Roger's successful capture of the DQ escapee- Gotcha! But imo the Choice villain is still at large dodging the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune". The search continues... ***** (1) LIFE AS A JOURNEY A lost cyclist is pedaling along a country road through pea soup fog- visibility some 10 yards all around her. As she advances along the road an indistinguishable vista unfolds seamlessly, expanding her awareness by building on her prior experience of the road. She looks back into more fog- only a memory of the road traveled... Accepting Marshall McLuhan's assertion that "the medium is the message/massage", what is the hidden message in my cyclist metaphor? What assumptions am I revealing about MY interpretation of reality through my choice of this particular metaphor to explain reality? - life is purposeless - the future is unknowable - we pursue the unknown - the known is used as a guide for the unknown - life is a solitary pursuit - life is cyclical (sorry!) - ??? (2) LIFE AS A CHESS GAME ROGER: "...let me introduce you to an awesome book by Kevin Kelly. Called "Out Of Control," it is an intellectual journey into the issues of evolution, complexity, freedom, and control. One of my favorite passages in this book is in Kelly's explanation of the rules of thumb used both by grand masters of chess and by the best chess computer programs. Most fascinating is that Kelly points out that these rules of thumb don't just apply to chess. They can literally be read as rules to live by. See for yourself....... 1) Favor moves that increase options. 2) Shy away from moves that end well but require cutting off choices. 3) Work from strong positions that have many adjoining strong positions. 4) Balance looking ahead to REALLY paying attention to what's happening now on the WHOLE board." MB: Again if "the medium is the massage", how is Mr. Kelly trying to work us over? What assumptions is HE revealing through his 'life as chess' metaphor' about his take on reality? - life has a purpose (victory at another's expense) - foresight is an option, it's possible to predict the outcome of one's choices - life has a beginning and an end - life is about outsmarting others - life is an ongoing struggle against opposing forces - ??? Is your life more like a game of chess or a foggy bicycle ride? Or do you live by an altogether different metaphor? (3) LIFE AS A CHOICE ROGER: Are the key moves of chess programs another way of stating (in chess terms) THAT CHOICE WHICH IS MOST DYNAMIC IS THE BEST (most moral)? I think so. This may not prove a darn thing, but it does seem relevant. MB: The problem with the chess/life analogy now becomes evident. Participants in a game of chess have a mutually agreed upon purpose- to win the game, and so their choices will be directed toward that end. In chess, you might bring out a pawn to open things up for your queen's bishop- you know the outcome of your choice. Is this Dynamic in the MOQ sense? It all seems rather static to me. In fact what is there really Dynamic in a game of chess, if according to Pirsig, "Dynamic Quality comes as a sort of surprise"? Perhaps it's that rare moment of discovery arising from a very static choice, or maybe your opponent 'pulls a rabbit out of the hat' and wipes out your entire plan of attack. So then moving away from the chess board, where is choice in reality? MARCO "Existence is a continuous choice." MB: Agreed. But then... MARCO: "If to choose is to pursue what's more valuable, then existence is necessarily a movement toward excellence." MB: So if I choose to run red lights because I value the thrill of the chase, does this choice represent "a movement toward excellence"? Who's defining excellence? Is 'excellence' whatever takes your fancy? Existence IS a continuous choice, but each choice is based on PRIOR moral judgements... RMP: "...if moral judgments are essentially assertions of value and if value is the fundamental groundstuff of the world, then moral judgments are [INTELLECTUAL ASSERTIONS OF] the fundamental groundstuff of the world." (my parentheses) MB: Using the cyclist metaphor as a frame of reference... *VALUE/QUALITY unfolds out of the unknown. <"I can't see a bloody thing in front of me!"> *MORALITY is the interaction between the knowing/experiencing/'here and now' and the known/experienced/past. <"What's this approaching? Sounds like a truck, but there's only one light."> *MORAL JUDGEMENT is the knower's (intellectual) evaluation of this interaction. <"Phew that was a close shave! A truck with a broken headlight."> *CHOICE is action based on moral judgment. <"Another single headlight approaching. Probably a motorcycle, but to be on the safe side, I'd better pull over into the ditch."> But let's say our cyclist made a different choice... "Another single headlight approaching. Can't possibly be another truck with a broken headlight, no need to pull over into the ditch. AAARGGGH!" Some choices are better than others. JONATHAN: "systems evolve towards increasing (degrees of) freedom." MB: We can choose to move away from patterns which restrict our freedom. But in reality we have no way of knowing what lies up ahead. The best we can do is to form moral judgments BASED ON REALITY, and then use those judgments as a basis for future decision making. This is how I interpret Pirsig's assertion that... "In general, given a choice of two courses to follow and all other things being equal, that choice which is more Dynamic, that is, at a higher level of EVOLUTION, is more moral." A "choice which is more dynamic" is imo one based on those moral judgments which when formed were based on experienced reality. A less Dynamic choice might be once based primarily on moral judgments which originally were formed out of pre-existing patterns rather than reality. ROGER: "If a choice is a behavioral pattern of value, then choices are by definition a movement toward quality." MARK: I agree that a choice is a behavioral pattern of value, but life is no chess game, we don't know where our choices will take us, we only know for sure what we are moving away from. ROGER: Still, the question remains, which choice is the most dynamic? Which choice is the most evolved? Is it the choice which leads to the greatest freedom of choice? MARK: The most Dynamic choice is that which is based most closely on reality. ROGER: Is this month's topic a tautology? MARK: Yes, in a way. I think Pirsig is in effect claiming that 'That choice which is based on reality is the most moral choice, because according to my MOQ, morality is reality." ROGER: Is choice itself not a part of reality? MARK: Yes, if it's a GOOD (noun) choice. Choice is action based on prior moral judgment. Moral judgement is intellectualized reality. It depends on how closely our intellectualization reflects reality. Thanks for reading, Mark B __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
