Hi Elephant & Foci.
You said:
> MARCO WROTE:
> > IMO, THE SPLIT OF EXPERIENCE IN FOUR LEVEL IS WHOLLY
> > INTELLECTUAL.
> A
> > ghost, just like the gravity law. I mean, it's a good intellectual
> > trick used by Pirsig to explain universe. We can't be sure that
> > tomorrow someone will come to explain the universe diversely,
> > offering a better solution, but, If we are here, it's probably
> > because we all find in this explanation the best static latch we
> > have ever found. Or, at least, one of the bests (where "best"
> > means here harmonic, simple and matching the real life
> > experience).
> ELEPHANT:
> Well, that must be right. After all it is an important part of MOQ
> that the splitting up of experience is something done in our
> language, and that the mystic reality is something continuous and
> undivided (Dynamic Quality: Northrop's aesthetic continuum). To
> really grasp this is to remember that any device for splitting up
> experience is just that: a device - not a report of a reality out
> there.
> That said, of all the 4 levels and the divisions which they picture,
> we do find one particularly interesting: Intellect. The reason that
> I find this level interesting is that the Intellect/Non Intellect
> dichotomy is strongly connected to the Static/Dynamic
Like Magnus I don't find the Intellect/Non Intellect split comparable
with the Static/Dynamic one. I spoke in my last addendum to
Marco about (the danger of constructing) metaphysical bulkheads
between the static levels, but this sounds more like an abyss
between intellect and non-intellect matching the DQ/SQ split itself.
As Magnus says there is just ONE division and that's the DQ/SQ
one. If more is introduced it gives rise to all kinds of sub-divisions
that destroys the Q beauty.
Intellect is a great leap admittedly, but so are all the static levels
and all are "particularly interesting", yet, intellect is no special
development different from the rest of the static sequence. I may be
barking up the wrong tree, but I always see SOM's "mind" when
people start to elevate intellect to some special status. If this is
allowed into the MOQ it is done for, and Struan's accusation of
"ugly complications" is justified.
> dichotomy, which
> is a dichotomy of a more fundamental kind, because it is not a
> division within patterns, but attached to the division between all
> patterns and the mystically real.
Of course intellect is at the top (or outskirts, depending on how we
visualize the Q-universe) of evolution and the place that now
confronts the dynamic hinterland. Yet intellect itself is STATIC and
its borderline with the social level (non-intellect) is a static/static
one and not "of a more fundamental kind".
> This is something Marco's comments
> have jogged in my memory, and I will try to explain what I mean.
> There seems to be some disagreement about where to draw the
> boundaries of 'intellect' (I'm refering to discussions with Platt in
> the 'other species' thread on MD) - and this is what we would expect
> and allow for if 'intellect' was itself just another intellectual
> pattern.
"Intellect itself just another intellectual pattern". This
logical black hole is a most valid observation and shows your
keenness. IMO it can only be overcome by saying that the Quality
idea is an intellectual pattern that can't be contained by intellect
and has started off on a purpose of it own; a budding new level,
ever so fragile.
> But
> if we could show that 'intellect' somehow maps precisely onto the
> Dynamic/Static split itself, that would give us a purer clearer
> notion of intellect, and also one that corresponds to the real
> structure of the world, rather than being merely a conveinient
> falsification of mystic reality.
An idea suddenly strikes. Could it be that ... "Maps precisely onto
the Dynamic/Static split itself ...." means that you see intellect as
matching subjective/objective in the sense that subjective=dynamic,
objective=static? If so I will bow and scrape from here to eternity :-)
I have read all of your message David, each sentence invites to
new threads, but our time is limited and we have a long list of
problems to solve before month's end.
Bo
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
