dmb: How about if we think about the levels by taking a look backward? The idea of levels in Pirsig's thinking goes back to ZAMM, at least.
Mark 12-5-04: Is there textual support for this? You must remember that ZMM presents many ideas which are abandoned as the MOQ is developed. For example, the Classic/Romantic split no longer plays any part in the MOQ, and to attempt to integrate it into the MOQ would be a mistake. I suspect its part of the "oldest idea known to man". Mark 12-5-04: Quality is the oldest idea known to man. Levels are intellectual postulations and as such may be termed intellectual Quality. Of course, intellectual Quality is part of evolution theory. In any case, the quote below we can almost see what the MOQ levels looked like before they were born. In the distinctions between physical, mental and value quietness we can see the biological, the social/intellectual and the Dynamic... Mark 12-5-04: The MOQ unites the theory of evolution with Quality. ZMM is concerned with Quality. Lila is concerned with the MOQ. "This inner peace of mind occurs on three levels of understanding. Physical quietness seems the easiest to achieve, although there are levels and levels of this too, as attested by the ability of Hindu mystics to live buried alive for many days. Mental quietness, in which one has no wandering thoughts at all, seems more difficult, but can be achieved. But value quietness, in which one has no wandering desires at all but simply performs the acts of his life without desire, that seems the hardest." ZAMM 265 Mark 12-5-04: This is the Way - the Tao. Remember the butcher's knife in The edge of Chaos? The Tao is equated with Quality in ZMM. Lila unites Quality with evolution theory. I found a similar notion in The Guidebook to ZAMM. Below, Ron DiSanto is commenting on the classroom exchange that promted the young Phaedrus to leave India. When he'd asked his professor if the bombings at Nagasaki and Hiroshima were just an ILLUSION too, the teacher said only "yes". The structure of the MOQ was the furthest thing from DiSanto's mind when he made these comments. In fact, they hadn't yet been born (Or rather published) yet. Here he is explaining why it was apportiate for the young student from the West to be shaken by the his techer's apparent indifference to such slaughter. Still we see the idea of levels expressed in it... ..."I think it important to point out that he might have answered differently without doing injustice to the tradition. He might have said, for example, that there are levels of truth and reality. ...we who live on the lower level the level of empirical consciousness, must regard as real and take very seriously events like Hiroshima, even though we believe that such events disappear on the highest level. We are where we are, and we shouldn't pretend to be where we aren't. When we say the things of the world are mayic, illusory, we are speaking of what is true from a standpoint of the highest level." Mark 12-5-04: The highest level is the viewpoint of the Buddha - the Dynamic view point - enlightenment. Here there are no differentiation's, because it is recognised that all (value) differentiation's are imposed. Evolution theory is a product of differentiated thought. The MOQ unites differentiated thought with Dynamic Quality. What's my point? I suspect reality itself is ranked and ordered somehow and its not just us imposing our hierarchies. Mark 12-5-04: I feel your suspicions are perhaps the result of a misguided interpretation of the 'looking backwards' project. All hierarchies are impositions. But, some hierarchies are better than others. And what determines which are better? Quality. Hierarchies are Intellectual Quality. The idea seems too old, too pervasive, too useful and too well backed by evidence for us to do anything but believe it. Mark 12-5-04: You are talking about Quality, not differentiated reality. If the universe were not so well ordered and ever striving for more exquisite forms of quality, how could it have produced Kate Beckinsale? Thanks. dmb Mark 12-5-04: I laughed until i stopped. All the best, Mark MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/ MF Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_focus follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/mf/subscribe.html
