David B. and group.
DMB spaketh so:
> Sorry friend, I have to disagree with your picture of the intellectual
> level. I think it's much richer and more complex than SOLAQI seems to
> allow. In short, I think non-SOM intellectual patterns are not only
> possible, they already exist.
My SOL mission hasn't brought many converts yet possibly
because it sounds like something different from what Pirsig teach,
but it is more catholic than the pope really. But first a little speech.
"Rich and complex" sounds so good but regarding theories -
particularly theories of everything - the more general the better. I
have an old copy of "Physics Today" (1970) where as illustration to
an article there is a human figure standing in front of a blank square
(Caption: 10 000 BC The inhabitants have no conception of the
universe). Next is the same figure but the square has been crossed
diagonally (1500 AD. The physicists discovers a basic subdivision
called "triangle". So it goes on with the square being crisscrossed
until it's completely black (2000 AD. The inhabitants have no
conception of the universe).
This is physics, but it goes for metaphysics too. If there were a
"metaphysics" before SOM it had reached confusion with the
countless gods and goddesses for every aspect of existence. Then
along comes subject-object metaphysics putting an end to all that.
with its TRUTH (objectivity) independent of of what people thinks
(the gods could be swayed). It set free a new culture of science,
individual value and rights: everything we regard as civilization.
But in the last half century of the second millennium it reached the
same obfuscation. Relativity, Quantum Mech. nobody any longer
has any enthusiasm for physics or believes it will bring us
anywhere - it was once a kind of religion. Then comes this
"madman" from an obscure college in Montana with this Quality
Metaphysics. A new "square crossed only once: the Dynamic-
Static. The static part is also beautifully simple, intellect is merely
one static level, but when we started to (try to) define it it grew into
obfuscation. lt became good old mind of SOM that contains
everything or nothing - even MOQ itself, and nothing is gained.
The reason I fell so completely for the MOQ was the promise of
getting out of the subject-object trap, but when the Lila Squad
discussion started the impossible mind-intellect struck and I
launched the first sketch of the idea that the intellectual level could
be seen as subject-objectivity itself, and immediately both Q-
intellect - and SOM - fitted nicely into the MOQ mold.
> Like Rick, I think social and intellectual levels are "subjective" in
> spite of the fact that Western science is founded on "objective"
> facts. In SOM both are considered "mental" rather that "physical". So
> I really don't think its right to see the intellectual as objective.
It's clear that you misinterpret the SOLAQI grandiosely and that
we would be in complete agreement if you would see its true
tenets, but how the h.... am I to it as to penetrate your "barrier
reef"? Well no amount of repetition will do, my last message to
Rick possibly said it best.
No hard feelings, we are here to discuss the MOQ and its ability to
keep us going shows that there is something fascinating in it. But
back to the last part of the first paragraph:
> In short, I think non-SOM intellectual patterns are not only
> possible, they already exist.
I thought that you - of all people - saw the impossibility of "non-
SOM" intellectual patterns ...unless you regard Q-intellect as
"mind". Fascism and nazism are ideas (or ideologies) but are they
"intellectual" patterns conforming with 'habeas corpus', human
rights and and fair trial? No, and no again, Q-intellect can't be
anything else than patterns conforming with (the quest for) truth
and objectivity .....in contrast to subjectivity. This does not:
> ..short- changes the complex nature of the hightest
> level.
There is complexity below the general SO surface enough for an
eternity.
> There is a great variety of static patterns at all levels of Quality
> and the intellect is hardly an exception. As I understand it, the
> fourth level is the most diverse and Dynamic. Not only are they many
> thought systems and dozens of intellectual traditions in the world,
Well, again the thought-intellect haunts. If the you regard the Greek
or Nordic or Indian mythology as "intellectual traditions" it's not the
MOQ-Intellect. May I have your opinion here? Hurry up! :-)
Bo.
------- End of forwarded message -------
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