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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Video view position with lower resolution (Adam Goryachev)
2. Re: Video view position with lower resolution (Gotcha IT)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 15:00:32 +1100
From: Adam Goryachev <mailingli...@websitemanagers.com.au>
To: motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Motion-user] Video view position with lower resolution
Message-ID:
<928bce0e-b432-cfa3-8543-e1e327f60...@websitemanagers.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
I'm not sure if we are getting too far off-topic for this list, but I
think it should be reasonably relevant...
On 22/1/19 2:13 pm, Gotcha IT wrote:
> I think they can be quite scalable.
> The cameras I've built have two 120 degree fov cams (each connected to
> it's own RPi Zero W) fitted in a aluminium travel cigar tube
> (https://www.amazon.com/Aluminium-Cigar-Travel-Hygrometer-Humidifier/dp/B01BLW7NEG).
>
> Those tubes are fitted onto a superclamp
> (http://studio-assets.com/super-clamp-with-5-8-stud) which allows me
> to fit them to trusses in our popup shops.
> The RPi's are fed via a single cable which is split in the tube to
> power both RPi's.
What do you use to power them? Currently, I'm using PoE with this:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/poe-hat/
It makes the setup a little more expensive, but it also makes it easy to
do a remote reboot by controlling the switch port, and solves the
network connection issue with the same cable.
> They then connect to a Wifi router which itself connects to 4G.
> All cameras stream video to a Synology NAS (the Synology Surveilance
> software works great for this) and imagery is recorded on the NAS.
> I only use 1024x768 resolution at the moment (cameras support HD), and
> only stream 1 frame per second. That results in about 350-400kbps data
> per camera. As everything is streamed over 4G, and the cameras are not
> the only devices using 4G, (we also upload raw images from photography
> cameras, each 30MB in size or so) data consumption needs to be kept low.
>
> The setup works well enough though, and would scale fairly well,
> easily to 20 cams.
What I meant is we had 28 cameras at one location, and were looking to
add more. We have 9 locations now, so it was looking like 250 to 300
cameras. In addition, the remote sites didn't have the level of
bandwidth that would support streaming all that data back. We are using
resolution of 1600x1040 which seems to give the largest FoV, and good
quality, at framerate 10.
> Our popup shops usually sit in shopping centres and the cameras are
> used to monitor foot traffic around the set and for security purposes.
> With a resolution of 1024x768, I get nice wide view (and as the
> cameras in the tube are mounted back to back I have an almost 360
> degree view. There's now newer RPi cameras available that have 170
> degree fov, which leaves just 20 degrees on each end.
What do you use on the ends of the tube for weather proofing and as a
lens? Or do you just fix the camera in place (using some custom case, or
hot glue or .... ) and no lens/seal? Are you concerned about dust/dirt/etc?
In my scenario, its a car workshop, lots of dust/etc, and the
requirement is for security and monitoring the workers to ensure they
are working, along with finding out who moved/smashed the car, or stole
the coins from the glove box etc...
> But I don't really care for the ceiling, and reducing the resolution
> to 1024x600 gives me a much lower bandwidth usage.
> Unfortunately, the cameras hardware determines where it pulls video
> from the CCD when using a lower resolution. Which means I need to get
> the cameras back at some stage and tilt them downwards, or mount them
> upside down.
>
I understand the RPi Zero doesn't have ethernet, hence your use of WiFi,
but one concern is having so many cameras all streaming over wifi at the
same time might saturate the wifi.
BTW, so you are using motion on the camera locally, and using that to
stream to the synology nas, which then does it's own motion
detection/recording ?
Previously, I was using mjpeg_stream or something like that, it was a
simple command which would publish the stream from the camera to a HTTP
"server" that it created itself. Much simpler than motion, and worked
100% reliably. You could probably look at that, and drop in other tools
into the pipe to crop the image as needed.
Otherwise, yeah, its a matter of physically adjusting the cameras so you
get the view that you are interested in.
Always interested in how other people are getting large numbers of
cameras combined together. Things I haven't solved include creating the
"video wall" and an easy solution to search/access/find old recordings.
Regards,
Adam
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Adam Goryachev" <mailingli...@websitemanagers.com.au
> <mailto:mailingli...@websitemanagers.com.au>>
> To: "motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net"
> <motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net>>
> Sent: 22/01/2019 12:16:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Motion-user] Video view position with lower resolution
>
>> On 22/1/19 1:26 am, tosiara wrote:
>>> Motion does not select which part of the sensor to grab, it asks
>>> camera to provide 1024x600 and you will see whatever camera gives
>>> Also, there is no way to crop picture by motion, but you can setup a
>>> middleware, like ffmpeg, that will grab picture from camera,
>>> resize/crop and feed it to motion (if it is really worth)
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 2:15 AM Gotcha IT <i...@gotcha.net.au
>>> <mailto:i...@gotcha.net.au>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> New subscriber here.
>>> I use MotionEyeOS on several Raspberry Pi Zero W's as security
>>> cameras. With cameras connected to a 4G service, I need to use
>>> my bandwidth wisely, especially as the cameras are not the only
>>> devices using the 4G service.
>>> To reduce bandwidth I use a lower resolution (with only 1 frame
>>> per second) than the camera supports (a 120 degree FoV MMAL
>>> camera). Because I'm more interested in a wide than high view I
>>> prefer a resolution like 1024x600 over 1024x768.
>>> However, if I specify 1024x600, Motion grabs the top part of the
>>> camera view (CCD), not the middle part. Is this configurable? If
>>> not I would prefer?it to default to the middle, but ideally I'd
>>> like to configure this as ?in my case I need the bottom part
>>> more than I need the top. The top part of the camera view is
>>> generally ceiling, which is of no interest.
>>>
>>> With MotionEyeOS I can provide Motion options for the video
>>> device, but I couldn't find anything related to this.
>>> Does anyone know if this is configurable and if yes, how?
>>>
>>> If not, perhaps this could be included as a feature request?
>>>
>>>
>> Interesting.... I've been using the RPi 3 for a while for a similar
>> purpose, but after reaching around 20 or so cameras, I realised that
>> this was not going to be scalable. The only solution is to run motion
>> on the camera itself to do the motion detection/etc. I've also
>> currently left the recordings on the camera, but eventually was
>> planning on forwarding low res videos to the server (using rsync or
>> similar), and potentially hi-res motion events during "alarm" periods
>> (ie, nights) and send those straight away (to prevent against the
>> "intruder" stealing the camera or damaging it and destroying the
>> recordings).
>>
>> Anyway, you could equally run motion locally to do all the motion
>> detection and recording locally, and then use the motion remote view
>> (with a lower framerate and/or quality).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adam Goryachev Website Managers www.websitemanagers.com.au
>
--
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 05:19:12 +0000
From: Gotcha IT <i...@gotcha.net.au>
To: Motion discussion list <motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Motion-user] Video view position with lower resolution
Message-ID: <em2ffdb2ea-71ea-441c-9e7e-63b416291dd7@m046-dhp3130>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
My question has already been answered, so I don't really care where this topic
is going any more. :-D And discussions about real life scenarios can be very
helpful for others.
I've contemplated PoE but powering them via a micro usb y-splitter proved
easier and cheaper. I've got 2 Zero's in the one tube. The tubes leave about
5mm space around the Zero's when they go in lengthwise. So not much space for
other things. The y-splitters need to be cut back a bit (they have a 90-degree
angle plug that goes into the Pi) and then just fit the tube (with maybe 1mm to
spare.).
Yeah, 250 cameras would chew up some data. :-P In my setup with only 1024x768
and 1 frame/s streaming, it still eats around 350-400kbps. If I need to have a
camera rebooted I just get one of the girls to powercycle it.
Our popup shops are only in (covered) shoppingcentres so I don't have to worry
too much about weather proofing. Or dust. I haven't got photos of the units,
but I've mounted each Zero on a wooden tongue depressor (:-P), each zero is
then back to back mounted against each other using some spacers, with the USB
ports fitted on the same sides, and on the end of the tongue depressors sit the
camera modules. I used tongue depressors because they were of a right size,
have some flexibility, and are cheap. The whole construction slides into the
tube, and at the top I've drilled holes big enough for the cameras to sit in. I
then slide a plastic tube with a wedge to lock the cameras into place so they
can't move in any direction any more. Took a bit of thinking to come up with
this though. :-D
There's only 2 cameras per popup shop and all our popup shops sit in different
shopping centres, so saturation of wifi is not a concern. What is a concern is
wifi in shopping centres. They've gone crazy with wifi in those places (at
least here in Australia). There's easily a hundred different SSID's. Nuts.
Luckily the wifi router is quite close to the camera and we haven't had issues
with that yet.
As for the streaming, I don't do motion detection on the Synology, just store
everything for a while (like 30 days). The purpose is mainly to monitor foot
traffic and keep an eye on staff. We don't need longterm footage.
I've found Synology quite good for video surveillance, one of the challenges I
struggled with was how to make this footage available outside our network.
Synology makes that easy. It has a native app for both iOS and Android, a
desktop app, and web app. The only downside is that you need to purchase
licenses for every camera. But it supports heaps of cameras. And it has a
timeline, though searching for content basically means scrolling through hours
and hours of footage.
You can always get a cheap small Synology NAS to play with, they come with a 2
camera license and the NAS's aren't that expensive. Another option would be to
install a smallish Synology NAS's at each location and feed all cameras into
that. You could sync the data then overnight to a central location for longer
storage. Syncthing (which also runs nicely on Synology NAS's) would be good for
that. I sync raw images back to head office from each popup shop. Depending on
how busy things get it can be 2 SD Cards of 16GB each. That syncs (depending on
4G connectivity) in about 3-4 hrs.
I'm not sure if we are getting too far off-topic for this list, but I think it
should be reasonably relevant...
On 22/1/19 2:13 pm, Gotcha IT wrote:
I think they can be quite scalable.
The cameras I've built have two 120 degree fov cams (each connected to it's own
RPi Zero W) fitted in a aluminium travel cigar tube
(https://www.amazon.com/Aluminium-Cigar-Travel-Hygrometer-Humidifier/dp/B01BLW7NEG).
Those tubes are fitted onto a superclamp
(http://studio-assets.com/super-clamp-with-5-8-stud) which allows me to fit
them to trusses in our popup shops.
The RPi's are fed via a single cable which is split in the tube to power both
RPi's.
What do you use to power them? Currently, I'm using PoE with this:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/poe-hat/
It makes the setup a little more expensive, but it also makes it easy to do a
remote reboot by controlling the switch port, and solves the network connection
issue with the same cable.
They then connect to a Wifi router which itself connects to 4G.
All cameras stream video to a Synology NAS (the Synology Surveilance software
works great for this) and imagery is recorded on the NAS.
I only use 1024x768 resolution at the moment (cameras support HD), and only
stream 1 frame per second. That results in about 350-400kbps data per camera.
As everything is streamed over 4G, and the cameras are not the only devices
using 4G, (we also upload raw images from photography cameras, each 30MB in
size or so) data consumption needs to be kept low.
The setup works well enough though, and would scale fairly well, easily to 20
cams.
What I meant is we had 28 cameras at one location, and were looking to add
more. We have 9 locations now, so it was looking like 250 to 300 cameras. In
addition, the remote sites didn't have the level of bandwidth that would
support streaming all that data back. We are using resolution of 1600x1040
which seems to give the largest FoV, and good quality, at framerate 10.
Our popup shops usually sit in shopping centres and the cameras are used to
monitor foot traffic around the set and for security purposes. With a
resolution of 1024x768, I get nice wide view (and as the cameras in the tube
are mounted back to back I have an almost 360 degree view. There's now newer
RPi cameras available that have 170 degree fov, which leaves just 20 degrees on
each end.
What do you use on the ends of the tube for weather proofing and as a lens? Or
do you just fix the camera in place (using some custom case, or hot glue or
.... ) and no lens/seal? Are you concerned about dust/dirt/etc?
In my scenario, its a car workshop, lots of dust/etc, and the requirement is
for security and monitoring the workers to ensure they are working, along with
finding out who moved/smashed the car, or stole the coins from the glove box
etc...
But I don't really care for the ceiling, and reducing the resolution to
1024x600 gives me a much lower bandwidth usage.
Unfortunately, the cameras hardware determines where it pulls video from the
CCD when using a lower resolution. Which means I need to get the cameras back
at some stage and tilt them downwards, or mount them upside down.
I understand the RPi Zero doesn't have ethernet, hence your use of WiFi, but
one concern is having so many cameras all streaming over wifi at the same time
might saturate the wifi.
BTW, so you are using motion on the camera locally, and using that to stream to
the synology nas, which then does it's own motion detection/recording ?
Previously, I was using mjpeg_stream or something like that, it was a simple
command which would publish the stream from the camera to a HTTP "server" that
it created itself. Much simpler than motion, and worked 100% reliably. You
could probably look at that, and drop in other tools into the pipe to crop the
image as needed.
Otherwise, yeah, its a matter of physically adjusting the cameras so you get
the view that you are interested in.
Always interested in how other people are getting large numbers of cameras
combined together. Things I haven't solved include creating the "video wall"
and an easy solution to search/access/find old recordings.
Regards,
Adam
------ Original Message ------
From: "Adam Goryachev"
<mailingli...@websitemanagers.com.au<mailto:mailingli...@websitemanagers.com.au>>
To:
"motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net"<mailto:motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net>
<motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:motion-user@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Sent: 22/01/2019 12:16:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Motion-user] Video view position with lower resolution
On 22/1/19 1:26 am, tosiara wrote:
Motion does not select which part of the sensor to grab, it asks camera to
provide 1024x600 and you will see whatever camera gives
Also, there is no way to crop picture by motion, but you can setup a
middleware, like ffmpeg, that will grab picture from camera, resize/crop and
feed it to motion (if it is really worth)
On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 2:15 AM Gotcha IT
<i...@gotcha.net.au<mailto:i...@gotcha.net.au>> wrote:
Hi Guys,
New subscriber here.
I use MotionEyeOS on several Raspberry Pi Zero W's as security cameras. With
cameras connected to a 4G service, I need to use my bandwidth wisely,
especially as the cameras are not the only devices using the 4G service.
To reduce bandwidth I use a lower resolution (with only 1 frame per second)
than the camera supports (a 120 degree FoV MMAL camera). Because I'm more
interested in a wide than high view I prefer a resolution like 1024x600 over
1024x768.
However, if I specify 1024x600, Motion grabs the top part of the camera view
(CCD), not the middle part. Is this configurable? If not I would prefer it to
default to the middle, but ideally I'd like to configure this as in my case I
need the bottom part more than I need the top. The top part of the camera view
is generally ceiling, which is of no interest.
With MotionEyeOS I can provide Motion options for the video device, but I
couldn't find anything related to this.
Does anyone know if this is configurable and if yes, how?
If not, perhaps this could be included as a feature request?
Interesting.... I've been using the RPi 3 for a while for a similar purpose,
but after reaching around 20 or so cameras, I realised that this was not going
to be scalable. The only solution is to run motion on the camera itself to do
the motion detection/etc. I've also currently left the recordings on the
camera, but eventually was planning on forwarding low res videos to the server
(using rsync or similar), and potentially hi-res motion events during "alarm"
periods (ie, nights) and send those straight away (to prevent against the
"intruder" stealing the camera or damaging it and destroying the recordings).
Anyway, you could equally run motion locally to do all the motion detection and
recording locally, and then use the motion remote view (with a lower framerate
and/or quality).
Regards,
Adam
--
Adam Goryachev Website Managers
www.websitemanagers.com.au<http://www.websitemanagers.com.au>
--
Adam Goryachev Website Managers
www.websitemanagers.com.au<http://www.websitemanagers.com.au>
-- The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by
anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any
disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete
the message from your computer. Viruses - Any loss/damage incurred by receiving
this email is not the sender's responsibility.
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