All, How does one come up with a number that "ought to be found in a local breeding area"? I don't recall anyone ever reporting 4000+ of any single bird at one time with the exception of a maybe canada geese, snow geese, and maybe a few other select species. How is this figure a deterministic way of establishing whether or not a specific bird has a wild sustainable population? I don't recall ever having seen over 4000 of anything except maybe Canada Geese at any one time.
With regards to certain Gallinaceous species, especially with regard to Wild Turkeys, does the statement "The likelihood that one bird seen on any one day is a recently released bird is fairly remote" encompass all counties in MN? What about a place like Todd County along I94 where there is a massive turkey farm along the northern side of the highway. How does one know that wild turkeys in Todd County, especially within a few miles of that farm are not escapees? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just asking questions, because a lot of the "wild/released/escaped" discussions really baffle me because some of the logic behind them seems somewhat fabricated or flawed sometimes. It seems that because a specie is assumed to not have an established or wild population that any bird seen of that specie is therefore assumed to be released, without any factual basis for that determination. For example, what would happen if a Chukar showed up? I'm of the opinion it would immediately be disregarded as an escapee or released, without any study or observation. Yet if a non-game bird shows up from way out of range (Recent examples being Scott's Oriole, Anna's Hummingbird, Long-tailed Jaeger and Long-billed Curlew) there is never a discussion regarding if they are wild or not. There was discussion if the Anna's got here via human transportation (ie stowed away in a cargo bay of a plane), but there was never discussion on its wild status or its countability. Is it solely based on the knowledge that game birds are released or escape and thus the assumption is made based on that knowledge? Does anyone have solid proof that someone isn't breeding hummingbirds or orioles and releasing one occasionally to get a rise out of local birders? How far does the discussion of countability/wild/released etc status go? Chris Fagyal Senior Software Engineer United Defense, L.P. Fridley, MN (763) 572-5320 [email protected] >>> "Anthony Hertzel" <[email protected]> 08/08/2003 11:37:56 AM >>> carol schumacher wrote: > ========= > Folks who have birded in SE for years, show records > of > N. Bobwhite in Houston, Winona, and Fillmore > counties. > Maybe a bigger picture approach would be helpful > when > thinking about this species. No one is questioning whether or not Northern Bobwhite is being seen in these areas (or elsewhere). The issue is whether the birds being seen are wild or released. > What is very interesting is that N. Bobwhites like > other "chicken" birds show a some variation in > numbers > from year to year. Gray Partridge, Ring-necked > Pheasant, Ruffed Grouse, and N. Bobwhite all vary in > #'s. But you still need a minimum population level to sustain the species. Recent studies indicate that by the end of the breeding season (right about now) you ought to be able to find close to 4000 bobwhite in any one local breeding area. Is anyone in Winona, Houston, or Fillmore county reporting even 1% of these numbers? > The historic range of Northern Bobwhite did > encompass extreme southern Minnesota. Actually, it probably did not. > The unpredictability of #'s of Bobwhite is partly > due to nesting conditions and > naturally > occurring population fluctuations (which occur in > most > bird species.) But only above a certain population threshold. There is good reason to suspect that nowhere in Minnesota are there enough birds present to make this aspect of the discussion relevant. > In extreme SE MN what are the NATIVE gallinaceous > birds? Is this list correct? > Ruffed Grouse > N. Bobwhite > Wild Turkey > Greater Prairie-chickens Depends on your definition of "native". All but Ruffed Grouse were not present anywhere in Minnesota before European settlers changed the landscape in the 1800s. Greater Prairie-Chickens took advantage of these changes essentially on their own and so may be considered native. While bobwhite and turkeys were released by hunters and other game bird enthusiasts, they may also have moved into Minnesota on their own. > GRPC were so common here during Hvoslef's time that > from Lanesboro he could hear them booming from the > ridges (per Nancy's work). Whether they were native > here before Hvoslef's time is a question that I > can't answer. They were not. Elliot Coues wrote extensively on the advance of Greater Prairie-Chicken into Minnesota (see Coues, Elliott. 1874. Birds of the Northwest: A Hand-book of the Ornithology of the Region Drained by the Missouri River and its Tributaries. Government Printing Office. Washington D.C. 791 pp.) > The most obvious non-native gallinaceous (Sp) birds > here in extreme SE MN are Ring-necked Pheasant and > Gray Partridge. Our niece in Kenyon says we hunt so > we put back. Right or wrong, hunters release birds > ALL THE TIME. Who among us can tell by looking at a bird > that it was a released Gray Partridge or released RN > Pheasant? Where is the line of "accepted" turkeys > and released turkeys? Is it not arbitrary? Is it > not a political boundary? The question should be framed as one of reasonable possibility. Certainly Ring-necked Pheasant, Wild Turkey, and Gray Partridge are introduced species, but their populations are now thriving and self-sustaining. The likelihood that one bird seen on any one day is a recently released bird is fairly remote. On the other hand, it is almost certain that any bobwhite seen in Minnesota is a bird released in the past year or two. -- Anthony X. Hertzel -- [email protected] _______________________________________________ mnbird mailing list [email protected] http://www.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
