Here is Alan Knue's assessment.
> From: AJ Knue <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: GWGU ID needed > Date: December 24, 2011 12:19:23 PM CST > To: douglas chapman <[email protected]> > > I'm in Florida so I haven't had a chance to really study the pics, but first > look it structurally looks wrong. The bill and head shape look very atypical > for Glaucous-winged. It also looks smaller than the Herring in some of the > pics. I bet this is a bird with Kumlien's genes...maybe Herring x Kumlien's? > Maybe I'll have time to look closer later this evening. AJ > > > ----- > Sent from mBox Mail > Hotmail for iPhone and iPod Touch > http://www.fluentfactory.com/mboxmail > > ________________________ On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Terence Brashear wrote: > I forwarded the link to Karl's photos to my friend Stan Walens in San Diego. > He is also taking a look at them. > > From: douglas chapman <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth > Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2011 3:49:40 PM > > I have sent the photos to my friends Alan in Seattle. He is probably busy > doing family Christmassy things (family in Florida no doubt), but will get > back to me soon I'm sure. > > Doug Chapman > Sioux Falls, SD > > On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:53 PM, Jesse Ellis wrote: > > > Hey all- > > > > I'm not out to rain on anyone's parade, but I might. I'd be really > > interested to hear the opinions of some West-coast gull-meisters on this > > individual. From all of the photos I've seen, the color patterns are > > (obviously) good for Glaucous-winged Gull, but a lot of the structure is > > iffy. My chops in terms of gull ID aren't great, but I birded for a year or > > two in the Seattle area, and spent many winters in Ithaca NY gulling. > > However it's been a few years since I have put a lot of time into gulls > > (Madison doesn't get many unless you go to the dump.) > > > > All that said, here's my take on these photos. Every time I look at them, I > > feel weird about the head shape. This includes two aspects. One is the bill > > and the other is the crown. The bill just doesn't seem heavy enough for a > > Glaucous-winged. While it's rather stout, there are a number of photos > > where it seems too short and too even. Glaucous-winged Gulls generally have > > honkin' huge bills that are long and have a very heavy tip. This bird's > > bill seems short and fairly even. There are a few pictures that seem closer > > in line to expected for Glaucous-winged Gull, but the best photos (like > > this one: http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/image/140493686) show a short, > > even bill. The other issue well-illustrated in this photo is the steep > > forehead. In my experience, and perusing lots of photos around, > > Glaucous-winged Gulls have a flat head and flat forehead sloping slowly > > down to the bill, even moreso than the similar feature on a Herring Gull. > > This bird looks more Thayer's-like in that aspect. > > > > Another issue is the wing pattern, but this isn't quite as annoying to me. > > Most of the photos and guides I've looked at say that p10 should have a > > large white mirror, while p9 will lack a mirror or show a small mirror. > > This bird has a big mirror. Additionally, most guides and photos show > > Glaucous-winged Gulls with very little white tongues/moons on p8 and not a > > ton on p7 (see this photo: > > http://columbiariverimages.com/Birds/Images09Feb/portland_glaucous-winged_gull_flying_02-16-09.jpg > > ). > > > > I want to be clear, here. These are things about the photos that bother me, > > given my personal experience with Glaucous Gulls. I'm not calling an ID one > > way or another on this bird from 9 photos. I hope I'm wrong! I just have a > > few doubts. I'll probably be up to Duluth to check it out on Monday, if it > > stays. I'm throwing this out there to get some discussion going, which, I > > think, is traditional for gulls... > > > > Karl, and anyone else who's seen the bird, what do you think about this? > > Have any western gull folks looked at the photos accumulating? Anyone else > > who's seen Glaucous-winged Gulls have opinions? > > > > Jesse Ellis > > Madison WI (and currently Saint Paul, MN) > > > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Karl Bardon <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult > >> Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say > >> apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large > >> gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid > >> swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western > >> and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually > >> hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range. > >> For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include > >> a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon > >> ). > >> > >> Karl Bardon > >> Duluth, MN > >> > >> ---- > >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Jesse Ellis > > Post-doctoral Researcher > > Dept. of Zoology > > University of Wisconsin - Madison > > Madison, Dane Co, WI > > > > ---- > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > ---- > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html ---- Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
