Matthew Thomas wrote:
> If you regard Netscape and Outlook as `most', then yes. But Pegasus,
> Eudora, etc just understand simple things like <font> and <b> -- I would
> be extremely surprised if they ever include support for
> `text-decoration' or `border' or whatever.
I'd be surprised if they don't include it.
> See <http://mathtype.com/features/basic.stm>, and imagine that
> applied to HTML (or arbitrary XML) elements rather than math.
ok, so you really meant a box model like the one we have in CSS.
> If so, that is a bug. You can't have two elements with the same id
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#adef-id>.
Sorry, copy/paste error. I meant to turn into classes or style attr.
> That was my point -- it's ok to copy and paste elements across the
> boundaries of other elements when doing mail composition (where you're
> not concerned with counting CLASSes or specifying IDs), but when editing
> Web pages or XML, dissecting elements like that is almost certainly not
> what the author intended.
Definitely false if the author only cares about the rendering and not
about the structure/markup.
> That doesn't stop it from being a per-document issue, whereas
> preferences are for per-user issues. For example, if I choose `CSS
> only', the filepicker isn't going to automagically prevent me from
> opening any HTML documents which happen to contain HTML formatting. It
> only makes sense once a particular document is open.
>
> If you don't want the average user to see it (and I agree with you on
> that), then bury it in an `Advanced' dialog somewhere in the formatting
> menus for that document. Not in the prefs dialog.
I still disagree.
> I don't follow. If people don't have the ability to publish style
> sheets, how do they have the ability to publish Web pages at all?
Well, HTML documents are not only for Web pages ! I see people doing
slides in HTML, sending HTML documents instead of DOC. 99% of my personal
documents are in HTML and never went on a httpd.
>> How are you going to send external stylesheets by email
>
> When you attach an HTML file in Messenger, it should be smart enough to
> detect whether the style sheets are globally accessible, and if not ask
> you if you want to attach the associated style sheet as well (and update
> the links in the HTML file accordingly).
Attaching them is not enough. What if the external stylesheet imports another
one ? What if it contains image URLs ? Are you going to remap them ? Using MIME
content-ids ? If yes, how are going to save them on recipient's side ? Rewriting
them again ?
>> Why the hell are inline styles "bloated" ???
>
> Because the same styles are repeated (and diverged, and unmaintainable)
> for every single document you write, instead of just existing in a
> single file.
>
> This is, to a large extent, why style sheets were developed in the first place.
I know, I was there.
And that's why at the time people started inventing style sheets, they *ALL* added
processing instructions to the markup in order to store inline styles.
Inline styles are (a) natural (b) absolutely necessary. IMHO, the XML people who want
to get rid of the STYLE attribute are totally wrong.
>> How can you copy/paste
>> a fragment with its styles from a document to another one if you don't
>> have inline styles ?
>
> You don't. If I'm copying some text from the middle of a paragraph in a
> document which happens to use Centaur 12pt, and pasting it into a
> paragraph in a document which happens to use Helvetica 14pt, do you
> really think I want the pasted text to be in Centaur 12pt when the rest
> of the document doesn't use that font at all?
Again, think of a Wysiwyg environment. If you *SEE*
something, copy and paste it somewhere else, you should *SEE* the same
thing.
</Daniel>
