Ian Hickson wrote:

> On 13 Sep 2001, Ben Bucksch wrote:
> 
> Incidentally, the Flash issue seems to me to be a red herring. If, as an
> end user, I obtain a copy of a GPLed version of Mozilla, and a copy of the
> proprietary Flash plugin, then the GPL does not stop me from doing
> whatever I want with the GPLed code, *so long as I don't redistribute it*
> without following the license.
> 
> The only case that would be a problem is distributing the proprietary
> plugin with the GPLed Mozilla with the intent of using the whole as a
> Flash renderer. In practice, I see no one doing that.


This is *exactly* what Netscape does, ship Mozilla with Flash.

>>That's exactly my point - allowing other projects to use our code.
> 
> That may be your point, but it is not my point, which is to ensure my
> freedom to do what I like with the code.


You *can* do whatever you want with the code. You may not be able to do much 
with what someone *else* has done with the code, but you don't have to use 
their version.

> That depends on what your goal is. Yours, as I understand it, is to spread
> the source code as much as possible, for whatever reason. (I don't see why
> this is a good or bad thing.)
> 
> Mine is to increase freedom. Whether the source is used by one person or
> many does not really matter.
> 
> This is explained better than I could here:
> 
>    http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WillYouMakeAnException
> 
> : Maximizing the number of users is not our aim. Rather, we are trying to
> : give the crucial freedoms to as many users as possible. In general,
> : proprietary software projects hinder rather than help the cause of
> : freedom.


Maximizing the number of users, however, *was* a goal of Netscape when they 
opened the source and created the Mozilla project in the first place. If the 
Mozilla marketshare goes below a certain point MS can successfully "embrace 
and extend" web standards and make Netscape and any other browser 
irrelevant. Some people claim we are there already.

>>Are you saying that LGPL code is not "free"?
> 
> It's not strong copyleft. It is free as much as the MPL is free -- end
> users are free to do what they like, but the license does not stop people
> from using non-free software in conjunction with the free code.


True, and javascript is different from C++ and perl. Are you going to argue 
that we should stick to a single programming language, or can you admit that 
likewise different licenses might be preferable in different situations? 
(Just that question please. Once answered we can then argue what's best in 
*this* situation.)

> As an author of free software, I am against people taking my code and
> using it with code that they are not making free. The GPL protects me
> against that; other licenses typically do not.


Again, true. The GPL is a great license for projects that want or need to 
defend against incorporation into non-free projects, especially volunteer 
projects worried about parasites profiting from their hard work.

But in the Mozilla case your Modifications are additions to a vast bulk of 
existing code donated for your use by a commercial entity.

>>I don't speak less about proprietary environments, but other open source 
>>environments, like the MPL, LGPL etc etc..
> 
> But the only reason to use those environments instead of the GPL is to
> allow the use of proprietary code!!

Yes, which is appropriate or even required in some situations.

-Dan Veditz


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