To repeat an oft quoted wag on the subject of transportation planning - "solving congestion by buiding bigger highways is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Whining about the damage done by auto traffic, > >concrete, oil companies, destruction of the universe, etc. doesn't change > history. > > No it doesn't change history, but that's not the point. > I have a question for everyone. Where does it end? Or if you don't like that > question, Where is all this construction going, and why are we so bent on > endless miles of pavement? How will Minneapolis look in 50 or 100 years at the > rate we are going? If you pull out a map of Minneapolis, you will see there is > a road about every 800 feet. It's to the point now where we are paving over > what we have left of our parks. Too many green things there I suppose. Dirty > smelly highways are preferable to some, or at least as long as it's not in > their back yard. > So some say build more lanes, and pave over more land, that way people will > have a better way, to get away, from all of that pavement when they drive home, > to the greener suburbs. I can't be the only one who sees the irony here. I > think this is the heart of the reason why we can't build our way out of this > situation with bigger freeways. We need a better transportation system, and > bigger freeways aren't it. > Freeways are a money generating system to promote autos above all else so large > corporations can make huge profits. And that's the truth. The documentation is > all over the place. > Don't believe me? Watch the movie "Roger and Me" (available at your local > video store). This isn't about freedom to drive, or good of the community or > getting from point A to point B. It's about using transportation needs as a > pawn to making money, and it's at the cost of our environment. > Go to > http://www.highways.org/about/members.html > It the highway users alliance website. You will find only companies who stand > to profit with a website and an alliance that acts like its a grassroots > community organization. > Then go to the Science Museum (see today's Star Tribune) and check out the > photo exhibit on global warming, showing melting permafrost, receding glaciers, > dying forests and disintegrating ice shelves, and tell me I'm wrong. (God > knows I want to be) > > Tom Holtzleiter > King Field > > o: Minneapolis Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Mpls] Crosstown Follies & Adding Lanes > Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:30 -0600 > > [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] > > I don't want anyone to believe that my suggestion for adding lanes is due > to the fact that my commute to Minneapolis from Hastings is taking longer. > > There has been very little real job growth in both downtowns over the past > 20 years. Yes, the increase has been huge, but as a percentage of the > total vehicle miles traveled in the 25 largest metro areas across the US > downtown commuter traffic is a pittance of the increase. The real problem > -- or blessing of prosperity, if you see it that way -- has been the > 'huger' growth in suburban jobs and housing. Intersuburban traffic is > forced onto 50 year old freeways, making life miserable for everyone. > > Why not take $300 million from the LRT pot and bury 50% or more of the > crosstown commons? The tunnel portion would be heavy traffic only with > perhaps only three exits around 50th, 30th, and downtown. Then depress > part of a double deck roadway for only light vehicle traffic -- vehicles > with less than 3 ton axle weights. Lighter vehicles need less room to > turn, stop, and accelerate. Lighter vehicles need much less than 18 feet > of clearance and less structure, thereby reducing the heights and visual > intrusion of every exit ramp, etc. > > Lighter weight roadways will last longer and be much cheaper to maintain -- > they're far less costly to build and repair since they don't take the > dynamic pounding of 18-wheelers. Noise would be substantially reduced, > very little new ROW would be needed. All the current exits to 35 from city > streets could be better landscaped, entrances could be shorter, steeper, > faster, heavy trucks and buses would be limited to the tunnel. Some of the > despicably ugly sound walls could likely removed or shortened or actually > rebuilt as an amenity instead of an eyesore. Real aesthetics could be > introduced. > > It's being done in Paris, London, Sydney, Boston, LA, etc. Oops -- I > forgot, LRT construction has started, so forget that idea. Too > controversial and expensive, I'd guess. Only makes the lives of several > hundred thousand commuters every day better -- not to mention the local > residents -- instead of the 15 to 20 thou who will be on the Hiawatha. Oh > yes -- and let's not forget that federal transportation dollars forbid > separated grade single purpose roadways. That wonderful attitude from > Washington explains why many states routinely build privately financed toll > roads to do just what I suggest here. > > Until and unless voters demand policy makers to perform real long range > transportation planning -- untainted by politics and very narrow ideals -- > we need to get used to the fact that drive time will be an hour each way. > Folks in most every larger metro area than ours have been getting by for > decades with that reality. Whining about the damage done by auto traffic, > concrete, oil companies, destruction of the universe, etc. doesn't change > history. We are in such better shape that our immediate predecessors, we > -- live longer, are better fed, better housed, better employed, better > educated, spend far more time in leisure pursuits, travel at will, etc. > Immigrants flock to our shores. Am I being too optimistic?? > > Things will change. Politicians change much slower, and policy slower > still. How long would you guess it will take for federal and state > transportation officials to "get it" ????? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]@mnforum.org on 01/17/2001 11:26:16 PM > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > cc: > Subject: [Mpls] Crosstown Follies > > Terry Matula ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > "And what evidence can you point to that indicates that adding lanes is a > bad thing? I find it curious that so many people care so little about > factual information when it comes to transportation issues." > > It's not always the present facts that are disturbing. The idea (several > years ago squashed) of expanding 35W between the Crosstown and > Downtown--and myself possibly having a freeway sound wall for a view if > they tear down the block to our east to do it--that is a "bad thing." Not > to mention people being forced to move because someone 20 miles further out > doesn't want their speedometer needle to flutter under 65 mph... > > "List manager" (we all know the man behind the curtain?) wrote: > > "?should city officials lobby to delay the Crosstown Project, to keep lanes > open and ease the heavy impact (while perhaps stretching it out) on South > Minneapolis neighborhoods where commuters will inevitably cut through? OR > What mitigation steps SHOULD the neighborhoods try to get?" > > Preferable to me, that the commuters should remain in that concrete > riverbed than to have them speeding through our neighborhoods (and some of > them ending up with their cars entangled in my fence in the inevitable > increase in accidents at our intersections)? That one reason for the > Crosstown being altered is for safety reasons, bothers me--the accidents > along 62 are less due to its design than to drivers' impatience. I say, > cancel the project altogether and just keep the potholes filled. Too late > for that, I suppose... > > [Driscoll2] wrote: "[the commuters] actually admit to preferring a freeway > parking lot where they spend twice the time they do when the flow is faster > as long as the gummint isn't telling them what to do! By Gad." > > Well, they made their bed[room communitie]s in Ham Lake, Princeton, and > various exurbs in Wisconsin, now they can lie in it. THis isn't > anti-suburb sentiment, it's just reality that if you're further away from > your job, you shouldn't expect to get to work faster than those half the > distance or less... > > It'a kind of bizarre but the ramp meters democratized commuting: After > dropping off my spouse at her job in St. Louis Park, my gantlet through two > separate meters on Hwy 100 and I394 make my commute time exactly the same > as the Cargill V.P. who lives in Deephaven!!!! (Wait, what am I saying?!) > > Luther Krueger whose commute (when Jo takes Metro Transit) is under 12 > minutes from 35th and 1st Av. S., to my ramp at 4th & Nicollet. > Lyndale, 8th Ward > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > _______________________________________________ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > _______________________________________________ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > _______________________________________________ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls -- Caleb Faux, AICP Pflum, Klausmeier & Gehrum Consultants 5533 Fair Lane, Cincinnati, Ohio 45227 (513)-272-5533 Fax (513)272-5522 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web-site - www.pkgconsult.com _______________________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
