Claire Stokes wrote:
> MPS does have assessment testing going on at a range of points in each
> student's career, accountability is built in to a great degree. MPS has a
> great deal of information on the positive influence of small class sizes.
> Have you gone to meetings and asked for that information and been turned
> down?
Why would I have to go to a meeting to obtain this information? If you
believe that their is evidence to support this, why not just tell me how to
get it. If a study exists showing that smaller class sizes have had a positive
effect on student achievement why not just give me the web address of
where this study can be accessed? Support for my position can be
found in:
"Does Money Matter: The Effect of School Resources on Student
Achievement and Adult Success" Gary Burtless (Ed.)
As a matter of fact I did attend a neighborhood meeting when a member
of the school board was supporting the ballot initiative for smaller class
sizes and no one offered me any evidence (other than her testimonial)
that smaller class sizes have any impact. She did say that the school
district and done studies, but never offered to provide them.
> Or is the benefit that MPS believes it is receiving not a benefit
> that you consider valid?
WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS? I haven't seen the evidence yet.
> Have you contacted the School Board to confirm that the evaluation you
> suggest of the benefit of smaller learning environments has not yet taken
> place? Or are you expecting that that evaluation has not taken place
> because you have a low opinion of the MPS?
Once again...Why are we playing cat and mouse? Just tell me where I
can access the study.
> I've noticed over the past several months a certain flavor to your posts.
Damn right! I certainly hope they have a flavor, I wouldn't want
them to be bland. I am an educational conservative, so I suppose that
many education liberals might find my posts distasteful.
> So I took the time to read over your posts and to look at your home page.
> I see that you are currently a graduate student at the University of
> Minnesota (Twin Cities Campus) in Psychological Foundations of Education.
> That could explain your interest in this subject!
Well, yes it would. I include my web address when making posts on educational
issues so that readers can understand my background and biases. I would invite you
to provide the same type of information. Additionally, you might have noticed that
I have a new baby, which might also explain some of my interest in the educational
system.
> I see that one paradigm you hold up as a model for public education is the
> KIPP program (www.kipp.org).
[snip]
> That commitment means guarantees
> parents' active support of their child's education, and makes parents
> essentially not one of the problems you refer to in this quote (from a post
> on 1/15): "There are a number of problems endemic to urban schools but most
> of them are attributable to the attitudes, culture and techniques of
> parents, teachers and administrators, not the students."
Yes, and one of the problems (and possibly one of the reasons for KIPP's
success) is that charter schools in Minnesota are not allowed to reject or
eject students who do not meet academic or behavioral criteria.
> KIPP can be one or a number of schools within an urban school district. By
> definition, a whole school district cannot implement KIPP, because not
> every parent in a school district will choose to make that commitment. If
> every parent in the MPLS School District made a KIPP-style commitment to
> their child's education - you're right - a great deal of the problems would
> go away.
As stated above the legislature needs to make some changes to the
system before this can happen.
> MPS has to work with what it has.
MPS has to think outside the box. I find your statement defeatist.
> I agree that academic theories and alternative programs are crucial to the
> future of our educational system. The MPS is availing itself of a great
> deal of research and best-practices info around the country as it seeks
> evolve to best meet the needs of its students. But the MPS is subject to
> constraints that I'm not sure your postings always take into account.
Ditto.
> Small class size is thought to be valuable to the people in the system who
> are struggling here, now to do the best they can.
"Thought to be valuable...!" Cigarette smoking was once thought to be
healthful. SHOW ME THE DATA!
> I feel a palpable benefit
> in my child's class room, my child's teacher has said to me she would leave
> teaching if she were forced to teach in a larger classroom.
"I feel...!" A lot of people felt that the welfare system benefited recipients.
> Given kids who
> are inherently disruptive, given kids who are autistic, given kids for whom
> english is a struggle, given kids with radically different backgrounds who
> need time to develop relationships with each other because there aren't
> instant bonds based on any similarities whatsoever; when my master's
> prepared bi-lingual teacher with decades of experience says she wants small
> class size, I listen.
AGGGGAAAA!!!!!!!! I am not interested in the opinion of one master's
level teacher who has been indoctrinated in contemporary doctrine. The
same type of "professionals" predicted that English immersion would be
a disaster in California. It has not been, although we still need to be the statewide
data over the long term.
One major change that needs to be made rewrite the Disabilities Services Act
so that we can move kids who are disruptive and autistic out of mainstream
classrooms and into ones with teachers who are especially trained to help them.
Mike Atherton
Prospect Park
Ward 2
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~athe0007
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