I've heard the mayor and other's talk about the need for a grocery store downtown for a while. What interests me is whether the store will primarily be a convenience for commuters going home, or for downtown residents? If for residents, I don't see how one big store in one area of downtown is that convenient. Residents of downtown are more or less in the corners of the central area. To go one step further than the co-op idea, is that neighborhood, such as Elliot park and Warehouse district etc. open smaller stores. Is there a zoning code for number of parking spaces for smaller grocery stores or co-ops? I think taxpayers would be more willing to support a tax subsidy that we know people would be shopping at.
Amy Gehring Whittier > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan S. Kushner [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Dave Harstad; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Mpls] City subsidy for downtown Lund's store > > If Dave Harstad is right about grocery stores' profit margin being too > thin > to survive downtown without a subsidy, then it sounds ultimately > self-defeating to build a grocery store, with or without a subsidy. > Inevitably, the store would have to close down in several years after the > benefit from the subsidy was exhausted. > > If a downtown grocery store is so important, then I suggest subsidizing a > coop grocery store which would not need to make a profit to stay open and > could be democratically run for the good of the surrounding community. > The > question of how much control in its operation would ultimately be > exercised > by consumers, workers, local residents and workers, or city government > could > be based on what would best assure the store's viability and usefulness to > the community. > > Jordan Kushner > Ward 8 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Harstad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Mpls] City subsidy for downtown Lund's store > > > > Grocery stores operate on extremely thin profit > > margins. When you build a grocery store downtown, the > > economics of the deal don't work unless you subsidize > > it. > > > > The biggest problem is parking. Suburban stores have > > acres of free parking on relatively inexpensive land. > > With a downtown store, you have expensive land plus > > you have to pay $15,000 per stall for ramp parking, > > and $25,000 a stall for underground parking. That's a > > lot of money when the zoning code requires several > > hundred parking stalls. Plus, few people are willing > > to pay for parking when its free everywhere else, so > > the investment into the parking ramps provides no > > return. > > > > Since margins are so thin, Lunds would either have to > > mark up its prices, or go to City Hall with the tin > > cup out. I doubt that here in coupon clipping > > Minnesota that people would pay more for groceries to > > cover the added costs. So Lunds has only one choice, > > unless it wants to take a bath on the project. > > > > I absolutely agree with the statement that "everytime > > someone suggests building downtown, they want us > > taxpayers to chip in." But the reality is that if we > > really want a downtown grocery store we need to > > subsidize it. The next question then, is at what > > point does the subsidy become too much to justify? > > I'll leave that one to the people who count on our > > votes for their jobs. > > > > -Dave Harstad > > Whittier > > > > > > --- Terrell Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Walking from lunch at home back to the office a few > > > minutes ago, I > > > noticed the headline of one of the free weeklies > > > mentioning a downtown > > > grocery store. A quality grocery store downtown is > > > not a new topic. > > > > > > Not far into the article, guess what? The store > > > needs a city subsidy > > > of $8-12 million. Why is it that everytime someone > > > suggests building > > > downtown, they want us taxpayers to chip in? > > > > > > Granted the $8-12 million is significantly less than > > > what Mayor > > > Sayles-Belton and Jackie Cherryholmes rammed through > > > for the Target > > > store and Block E. > > > > > > At $8-12 milliion, its not much more than what we > > > taxpayers paid to > > > move the Shubert Theatre. Now I've forgotten why we > > > moved the Shubert, > > > but it doesn't look much different in its new > > > location, its just more > > > noticeable. > > > > > > Back to the subsidy. $4 million is for 30 > > > affordable housing units. > > > That's $133,000 per unit, not an especially good > > > deal. For $133,000 > > > per we can go buy 30 downtown condo units, rent it > > > out at affordable > > > rates and have money left over to buy a few more > > > units. (The Towers > > > and the north end of downtown and 1200 on the Mall > > > on the south end > > > come to mind as places where you can buy for less > > > than $133K). For > > > $133,000 per unit we can build virtually anywhere in > > > town. > > > > > > Yes, I'd like a downtown grocery store. I'd prefer > > > it be a bit closer > > > to home so that walking home with a weeks worth of > > > groceries would be a > > > reasonable consideration. I do, however, fail to > > > see why whenever > > > anyone wants to build on some of the most desirable > > > real estate in the > > > metro area their first stop is at City Hall to see > > > how much of a > > > subsidy they can get. > > > > > > Hasn't City Hall learned that the TIF gravy train > > > has got to come to an > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > > Terrell Brown > > > Loring Park > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > > > http://phone.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________ > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic > > > Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > > > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > > > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > > http://phone.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > > > _______________________________________ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls _______________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
