In my response, I've shown the excerpts from Mark's post out of order. The original post can be viewed here: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-September/016242.html
- - - Mark Wilde wrote (last paragraph) - - - I think it was irresponsible to post such claims, and then say, oh well they may not be true at all. I mean, you're not even sure there was a party, much less arrests, but your accusations sure were detailed, and other people may very well be repeating them as fact. - - - end excerpt - - - Interesting. I don't believe I made any accusations but rather was looking for facts regarding allegations that I saw reported on Indymedia. I took specific measures to ensure that it was clear that I was reporting statements made in someone else's post and also pointed out when that person's report were based on other people's reports. To go over my original email, before I ever started listing what was reported, I made it very clear that I was detailing a personal account and that I wasn't jumping to any conclusions. This is quite a bit different than the implication that I made accusations and then followed them with a disclaimer of "oh well they may not be true at all": - - - my original post (excerpt) - - - On Tuesday morning, a post appeared on Twincities Indymedia regarding a personal observation of a police raid on a party in Northeast Minneapolis. [SNIP paragraph detailing where to find original post] I am pulling specific allegations from the story and attempting to present them in a manner that doesn't jump to conclusions. Read the Indymedia post for the original report. - - - end excerpt - - - The following two paragraphs were detailing the non-inflamatory aspects of the report: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - The account states that a black family in a predominately white neighborhood was having a family barbecue on Monday evening. The family was playing their music quite loud, and at some point, the police drove by and let them know that they needed to turn the music down which they did. When the police left, they turned it back up. - - - end excerpt - - - I then reported the specific allegations that were made. I made it clear that these were claims and that they were reported as second hand information stated by people in the household that was ticketed: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - The account claims that a number of police arrived and gives some quotes that were overheard, but most of the rest of it was reported as second hand from the owner of the house and other family members who weren't arrested. It states: - The owner of the house was ticked for "unlawful assembly without a permit" - The police pepper sprayed a number of people in the house after being told they couldn't just walk in (other provocation to warrant the use of chemical irritants at that time was not reported) - The great grandmother kicked an officer in the shins after he pointed pepper spray at a three month old child. She then was roughly arrested. - Three family members were arrested, but the post did not state the charges. - - - end excerpt - - - The following several paragraphs were questions about getting more information and asking details about specific allegations made. My strongest statements in this section were: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - If the report is accurate in describing the level of force used, isn't this a bit extreme? Would pointing chemical irritants at a baby be considered provocation? I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually happened, but I know I'd be pretty upset if I saw someone pointing pepper spray at a baby. Obviously, if they were playing the music loud and turned it back up after being told to turn it down, they earned a ticket for the appropriate noise violation, but unless there is a lot more to the story, it seems like this was an extremely heavy handed way of dealing with the situation. - - - end excerpt - - - "If the report is accurate", "I wasn't there, so I don't know what actually happened", "unless there is a lot more to the story". Every statement I made is disclaimed with the fact that I don't know the facts and highlights the reason why I need more information. Back to your email: - - - Mark Wilde wrote (excerpt) - - - > "Whether or not the account was accurate, it > highlights the need for greater transparency > in the way things are currently handled." > > Whether or not the account was accurate...whether or > not the account was accurate!! You just accused the > police of threatening to pepper spray a child and > arresting a great grandmother. I'm surprised you > didn't claim they ate the leftover ribs too. - - - end excerpt - - - I did not accuse the police of threatening to pepper spray a child. I stated that the person who made the original post to Indymedia reported that witnesses in the house said that police were pointing pepper spray at a child. Additionally you left out the rest of the paragraph which was: - - - my original post, cont. (excerpt) - - - Whether or not the account was accurate, it highlights the need for greater transparency in the way things are currently handled. If I could access the police side of the story (with names removed to protect the innocent or whatever), I could at least view it from a more balanced perspective and follow up the Indymedia post with the police report. All I was able to find were statistics on the MPD website, but specific reports were not available and I couldn't find a way to request one. I couldn't find anything on wcco.com or startribune.com either. - - - end excerpt - - - Finally, - - - Mark Wilde wrote (excerpt) - - - > I appreciate your concern for the civilian review > process and the need for more accountability by the > police, but this type of rumor mongering is what led > to the melee/riot/block party over north a week or > so ago. - - - end excerpt - - - Here's the deal. This is already being told in a forum where there is a lot less trust of the police than there is here and a lot more willingness to believe accusations made against them. The only "rumor" I spread was that someone is saying that this happened and I'm asking for help finding out what the official account of things are. My first impulse was not to post stories, my first impulse was to find out what happened. I went to the MPD website, I went to startibune.com and wcco.com and found nothing. I couldn't even find out how to get a copy of the police report. So I turned to a place that may have the knowledge of how to get this information or other personal perspectives. I'd love to hear the officer's side of this. How about someone who could tell me whether or not arrests were made? What caused the mess in north was people who stated "police shot a kid". My post was more along the lines of "someone is saying that the police shot a kid, what happened?" and then adding that we need to make it a lot quicker and easier to get that information out there fast. Rumors are going to be out there and unless someone makes an effort to get all sides of the story and get those out there too, the rumors will fly unchecked. There IS a story going around of this happening and I am trying to collect other points of view about what happened. If this was police bashing, please point out how so. - Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE My original email: http://www.mnforum.org/pipermail/mpls/2002-September/016218.html The account on Indymedia: http://twincities.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=6587 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
