Socialism Slavery, indeed. Lord, help us if the people actually start controlling their country again.
Employees, especially bar employees, often have no choice as to whether or not they must work in a smoke-filled environment. Any retail operation is, under the law, a public accommodation. That means no discrimination, including discrimination over access to their goods and services without danger to health. If the atmosphere in a public accommodation is not friendly to the public health, then the business has an obligation to relieve sufferers from the imposition. The other matter is that it goes beyond choice when the smoke with which one is killing themselves also starts killing others. It's killing me after smoking for 30 years until 17 years ago. Minneapolis and other cities license bars and other facilities serving liquor because what they sell is a danger to public health when consumed in quantities other than moderate - either by addiction, by driving or destruction of human tissue - like brains and livers. I'm no teetotaler (although in recovery). I have no quarrel with alcohol consumption generally, but its manufacture and sales are highly regulated. Nicotine is far more addictive - even inhaled secondarily - and it kills - period. Not now, perhaps, but later. It destroys the lungs and hearts of those who choose - or are forced to breathe it instead of clean, oxygenated air. It is actually more dangerous than alcohol, but alcohol only kills non-users when the drunk runs into someone or kills/assaults family and friends when under its influence. We regulate alcohol, forbidding it for children or treating diseased addicts who ruin their lives. We barely regulate smoking which kills not only its users, but everyone around them. Smoke fills ALL the air available to it and is far more intrusive on the world of others than any other aspect of our lives. Minneapolis and St. Paul should ban it from all public accommodations as well as public buildings. Andy > From: phaedrus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:10:27 -0800 (PST) > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Mpls] smoke-free Minneapolis campaign? Please don't go there! > >> After the smoke clears from the election, I am wondering if anyone thinks >> that there could be interest in a smoke-free Minneapolis campaign. >> > There may be interest, but I strongly oppose this idea. Government buildings > and other public spaces that need to be accessable to everyone should be > (and are) non smoking. Privately owned businesses should be allowed to > decide for themselves whether or not they wish to be smoking, non smoking, > or zoned. > > I've got a friend who is a fairly rabid right winger. We tend to disagree a > lot, but I can see how concepts like this are the sort of thing that trigger > his libertarian oriented fears. > > Here's an excerpt from his song "Socialism Slavery": > > "I can hear them come marching They come to kick down my door Just because I > was smoking In a house with a baby next door" > > If liberals and progressives want the "right" to take their suggestions > regarding social services and the environment seriously, they need to stay > out of private businesses and people's personal lives. > >> California's public health policy was based on the premise that employees >> should not have to risk second hand smoke damage to their health as a >> condition of employment. >> > It is the best argument I've heard put forth for the concept, but it still > doesn't fly. Employees choose where they work. If they don't want to work > for a place that has smoking, they shouldn't do so. > > If they want to have their place of work go non-smoking, they should > organize and convince management to do so. > > If no one wants to work at a place that has smoking, those places are going > to have to pay higher salaries or go out of business. I'd imagine > non-smoking businesses could make a case to health insurance providers to > reduce their costs as well. > > That's how the free market's supposed to work, anyway. > >> Of course, most of us who don't smoke would greatly enjoy being able to hear >> music and go dancing without inhaling second hand smoke as well. >> > You should have a right to do so, but those of us who like smokey blues bars > and irish pubs should have a right to enjoy those as well. > >> It has always amazed me why bars don't try this policy voluntarily given the >> number of people who do >> >> not go out because of people blowing "exhaust fumes" in their face. >> > This, to me, is the crux of the matter and the right approach. > > If a bar, coffee house, or club wants to go non smoking, they should do so > and market themselves to people who want to go to smoke free environments. > If there are enough people who go there, the business will succeed. If the > business has other merits as well, it's likely that even smokers will also > attend. > > There are also places like Cahoots in St. Paul that has a non-smoking front > room, a smoking backroom and a big steel door and a hallway seperating the > two. The barrista is located in the non-smoking room. > > If your complaint is that there aren't any (or enough) non smoking venues, > you're probably not alone. Sounds like a good business opportunity to me, > good luck on it! I've got some friends who will want to know about the > opening. > > In general, this is a subject where people who I generally agree with end up > looking really bad. It's fascist and totalitarian! What right does anyone > have to tell a person that they can't go to a privately owned bar and have a > scotch and a cigar? > > Socialism when it comes to making sure people can eat, be educated, get > basic housing and health care, etc. is a good thing. > > Socialism when it comes to over-controlling private businesses and telling > individuals what choices they can and can not make is a bad thing. > > Free markets and freedom of choice for me, thanks. > > - Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE Having a hard time picturing Hard Times, > Halftime Rec, or Ground Zero w/o the haze. > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - > Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@;mnforum.org Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, > and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > _______________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@;mnforum.org Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
