>From Tim Bonham, >"So if you are going to claim that NRP is somehow better or "more > democratic" than having the elected officials do it, you have to address > this issue, not just dismiss it. > > P.S. My Aunt Hazel used to make a salad that involved mixing apples and > coconuts and several other fruits; I never saw anything wrong with that; I > always thought it was pretty good!"
Tim, I guess you probably also thought that chopped up coconuts grew the same size as grapes. Your Aunt might have fed you that, but please don't try it with Anne. Though "Young", she ain't no Mikie. Having been active in politics and in NRP, I doubt if she is going to swallow that one. So lets try to compare apples and apples, and leave the coconuts out of the bowl of your mind. General elections are like coconuts; NRP is more like a sub-caucus of a ward convention. Since caucuses and ward conventions pick the candidates for office, they are where the real political power lies. So lets compare a ward convention to Prospect Park's NRP meeting. We have just had one of both. The 3rd Ward Convention had 75 delegates show up to vote for the DFL endorsed candidate, and 250 people came to one neighborhood's, (of several in a ward) NRP meeting. Which is more democratic? I think you should also compare the amount of time and effort committed to the NRP process. If the DFL or one of the other Parties had that much effort they would win handily. So your comparison of levels of involvement just does not hold water. If the number of folks who showed up for NRP in Prospect park showed up for caucuses I bet we would have a new City Council person in each and every ward and possibly a new mayor. Those same NRP activists also generally do the work for the different political parties. Some people devote as much time each and every month to NRP as those individual delegates did at the Ward convention that one time every four years. Though after the convention some "Neighborhood" people probably did contribute a lot of time. That is why a non-endorsed candidate won. Congratulations to Don, but also congratulations to the neighborhood people. That is what it takes to get the CM your neighborhoods deserve, and it is the way to get the NRP programs your neighborhoods deserve. I hope other neighborhoods take notes about those great Jordan and Hawthorne Neighborhood people. Use the same tactics with your Council Members and we will solve the NRP problem. Of course Anne knows about this because she has contributed countless hours to each. She knows from experience with both. I might not agree with her about something's political and something's NRP, but I must admit Anne knows what is what when comparing political and NRP involvement. To some, NRP is just some kind of social engineering theory, but to those involved in their neighborhoods and communities it is something more; it is the act of a community coming together to address the needs of that community. That is why politicians have a problem with it. Autonomous Communities taking initiative to better themselves scare politicians and political hacks even more than they do social service industry workers. Neither one is particularly needed by a community intent on addressing its own needs. Before some political hack says, "Yes, but where would they get the money?" remember the politicians get the money from us; not the other way around. "They are only bribing us with a small part of our own money." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Since we are making comparisons of viewpoints and "facts", I had to laugh about Greg Luce discounting Steve Meldahl's post on Section 8 as nothing more than anacdotal. Actually I think Steve's "testimony" would come under personal knowledge. Steve offers specific acts and not hearsay as evidence. Now he might also offer anecdotal evidence, because I am sure many other landlords have told Steve similar stories that if repeated would be anecdotal. What Mr. Meldahl offered was direct empirical evidence from a specific sample or universe, his past tenants. From that empirical data I believe Steve can make certain knowledgeable extrapolations and generalize about that particular sample. Mr. Luce's statements are anecdotal. He likely has no direct experience with this particular group of tenants. In fact Luce is often on the other side in such issues and as such getting and giving a completely biased anecdotal account. Unless of course he has access to Steve Medal's records and experiences. Does he Steve? For Barbara Nelson: You should be able to figure out some of the CM's who attempt to concentrate poverty, and who also attack NRP. Their voting records and statements made at the Council and at Committee Meetings, (which are televised), demonstrate who is who. Some change back and forth, so lets give them a chance to switch sides. We already know a couple that have switched. We have hopes for others. How about asking the CM's to explain where they stand on these specific issues and demonstrate "who is who". Barbara Johnson, Robert Lillegren, Paul Zerby, Don Samuels, Natalie Johnson-Lee are a few who come to mind who are on the Impacted Neighborhood's side. There are others who flip flop, but we still hope they will come over from the "Imperial Dark Side". May the Force be with you, Jim Graham, Ventura Village - in Metropolis >"The rarest of gems, with the greatest clarity, >and with the greatest brilliance, >is not the diamond. >The rarest of all gems is the truth. >Yet as scarce as truth is, the supply has always far >exceeded any demand for it. In fact it may well be the >lest desirable commodity in the Universe. >Ask any politician" - Master Toe TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
