The installation of daily fee machines would address the concerns I have
about unfair ticketing practises at Nokomis, as long as the machines are
accessible all the time.

In the meantime, I hope the park police will stop the practise of
ticketing people for not having permits at those times when there is no
way to purchase permits on site.

I consider a ticket fair when someone is informed that he must have a
permit, he can purchase the ticket on site, he chooses not to purchase
the permit, and then is ticketed for not having the permit.

I consider the ticket to be unfair when someone is informed he must have
a permit, there is no way to purchase the permit, and then he is
ticketed for not having the permit.

Jay Clark
Cooper

"Siggelkow, Donald E." wrote:
> 
> Jay,
> 
> We will continue to make improvements to the parking system.  I'm not sure anybody 
> perceives a parking ticket as "fair".  We are installing daily fee machines at 
> Nokomis that will eliminate the need for the parking attendants.  The parking 
> attendants are there during peak periods to provide the convenience of a daily fee 
> as opposed to the season pass.  The lots are for season pass permit holders and we 
> are accommodating daily users.  If there are not attendants on duty - the lot is for 
> permit holders only.  The daily fee machines will be a great improvement for the 
> daily users.  We are also improving the signage to accommodate the visitors that do 
> not know that we charge for parking (and have since the mid 90's).
> 
> Let me know if you have any other concerns, questions,  Don Siggelkow - Assistant 
> Superintendent.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Annie Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:57 PM
> To: Jay Clark; Minneapolis Issues
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Siggelkow, Donald E.; Merrill
> Anderson, Mary E.; Merrifield, Norman C.; Schmidt, Michael P.; Hill,
> Dianne S.; Rietkerk, Judd H.; Ero-Phillips, Emily N.
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Nokomis Ticketing and Permit Parking
> 
> Thank you Jay for your comments on the parking problems.  I have forwarded
> your message to staff and will get a clearer (I hope) explanation to you
> regarding the several issues you brought forward.  I will also maybe
> attempt myself tomorrow when I am not so "ready for bed".
> Thanks for your comments,
> Annie Young
> citywide Park Commissioner
> 
> At 07:20 PM 6/21/03 -0500, Jay Clark wrote:
> >In the past week or so, I have seen many people visiting Lake Nokomis
> >who are being unfairly ticketed.  I want it to stop.  I describe here
> >what I have seen at Nokomis, but I think there is a good chance this is
> >going on at Minnehaha, Harriet, Calhoun, and other popular park
> >destinations.
> >
> >The park system has instituted a new permit parking system at the main
> >Nokomis Beach that works something like this:
> >
> >You drive into the Nokomis parking lot.  You see a blue sign with white
> >lettering telling you that you must purchase a permit to park in the
> >lot.  An attendant comes to your car and sells you a permit for two
> >dollars.  You put it on the dashboard, and you park legally.  The park
> >service has picked up some extra revenue, and you are operating within
> >the law.
> >
> >However this tidy new revenue strategy has an ugly side.
> >
> >I do not know the hours of the permit sellers, but I know that there are
> >great chunks of time during the week when there are no permit sellers to
> >be found.  I have been over there on weekday mornings as late as about
> >11:30 A.M., and saw no permit sellers.  Today (Saturday) I was at
> >Nokomis at 9:30 A.M. and 1:00 P.M., and saw no permit sellers.  There
> >are also no instructions on the sign on how to purchase permits when the
> >permit sellers are not there.  This means that for many, many hours of
> >the week you pull into the Nokomis parking lot, see a sign saying you
> >must purchase a permit, and have no way of purchasing a permit.
> >Surprise surprise, many people park in the lot.
> >
> >But parking at the Nokomis parking lot is akin to swimming at Amity
> >Island when Jaws is loose.  Because the park police are mounting the
> >most aggressive ticketing campaign at Nokomis I have ever seen. I am at
> >Nokomis about a half hour a day.  In the past week, I have seen police
> >at Nokomis ticketing vehicles four times.  Three times they were in the
> >Nokomis beach parking lot ticketing people for  not having permits, when
> >there was nobody to sell permits and there was no way for the beachgoers
> >to purchase permits on site.
> >
> >The last two times I saw the police ticketing cars, I broke off my run
> >and walked onto the beach and told people that the police were ticketing
> >their cars.  To a person, they were all furious that they were being
> >ticketed for not having permits when they were not able to buy the
> >permits.
> >
> >(For those who watch nature shows on T.V.: the great African Wildebeast
> >herds cannot hold a candle to the spectacular sight of a seething mass
> >of beachgoers rising in unison and thundering across the sand and into
> >the parking lot in a futile attempt to save their vehicles)
> >
> >I am particularly bothered by the idea that it might actually be in the
> >financial self-interest of the park system to make on-site purchase of
> >the permits impossible much of the time.  Having it be impossible to
> >purchase permits and then writing a ticket for not having the permit
> >yields $30.  Buying the permit yields $2.
> >
> >I have heard of speed traps before, but this is the first time I have
> >seen a parking trap.
> >
> >A park police officer justified ticketing people who could not purchase
> >permits by pointing out that people could park along the side of the
> >road for free.  This morning at 10:30, every non-permit parking place on
> >the west side of Lake Nokomis was already taken.  People with children
> >or handicapped or seniors simply cannot park halfway around the lake in
> >a an effort or dodge this parking trap. And regardless of the parking
> >situation along the road, it is wrong to require a permit, make it
> >impossible to get the permit, and then ticket the person for not having
> >the permit.
> >
> >An already bad situation is made even worse by this being the exact
> >opposite of park system policy in the past.
> >
> >In past years, people who used the Nokomis parking lot had to pay a
> >fee.  they drove into the parking lot, and saw a blue sign with white
> >letters saying that they had to pay a fee to park.  The parking slots
> >were numbered, and people stuffed a dollar into a fee box.
> >
> >During the off season, the park system put a tarp over the fee box, and
> >people could not pay the fee.  But I remember that the signs announcing
> >a fee area were left up long after the tarp went over the fee box.  This
> >meant that you drove into the Nokomis parking lot, saw a sign saying you
> >had to pay the fee, but could not pay the fee.  In all the years that
> >the park system used this system, I never saw a police officer ticket a
> >car for not paying the fee when the driver could not pay the fee. In
> >practice, the park system ticketed people only when the park system
> >provided the means to pay the fee.
> >
> >Anybody acquainted with the old system - this means anybody who has ever
> >visited Nokomis beach before - would see the blue sign with white
> >lettering announcing that they had to buy a permit, not be able to buy
> >the permit, and assume that the park system would ticket them only when
> >the park system had also provided the means on site to buy the permit.
> >But in fact the park system is following the exact opposite policy of
> >the old system. I cannot help wondering if the park police are
> >systematically targeting those people who cannot purchase the permits on
> >site.  It is like shooting fish in a barrel. And a great way to rake in
> >a lot of money fast.
> >
> >I know that the park system is desperate to bring in new revenue.  But
> >this is not the way to do it. The park system should either find a way
> >to make permits available all the time on site, or they should not
> >ticket people for not having permits when the park system has failed to
> >provide those permits.  This new revenue scheme will drive people away
> >from Nokomis and other parks and will damage the credibility of the park
> >system and the park police.
> >
> >This revenue scheme of ticketing people who cannot buy permits belongs
> >in the same dust bin as the strategy a few years ago of saving money by
> >allowing the grass to grow like weeds and then announcing that the park
> >system is restoring native prairie.
> >
> >Jay Clark
> >Cooper
> >
> >P.S.  I abandoned the main lake parking lots years ago when far too
> >often I saw the colorful sparkling green piles of glass that indicated
> >yet more car break-ins.
> >TEMPORARY REMINDER:
> >1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
> >2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change
> >the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.)
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
> >Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
> 
> Annie Young
> East Phillips
> "So many people complain that life is unfair, but that very fact proves just
> how fair it can be. Life doesn't discriminate. Everyone's life contains
> difficulties."
> -- Bernie Siegel
> 
> TEMPORARY REMINDER:
> 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
> 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the 
> subject (Mpls-specific, of course.)
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
> Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
TEMPORARY REMINDER:
1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject 
(Mpls-specific, of course.)

________________________________

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