MARK - Your statement forced me to pick up one of my old Constitutional Law textbooks because I thought that the Court did in fact say that separate is unequal. The Supreme Court in Brown vs. Board of Education did make at least two very powerful statements that separate is inherently unequal. To quote:
"We come to the question presented: Does segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race, even though the physical facilities and other 'tangible' factors may be equal, deprive the children of the minority group of equal education opportunities? We believe that it does." Six paragraphs later: "We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of 'separate but equal' has no place. Separate education facilities are inherently unequal." I do not believe that there is any evidence to support an argument that racially segregated schools are not inherently unequal. In states where school districts maintained racial segregation as an official policy, the dollars spent on the "colored schools" were in fact always much less than those spent on the "white schools". The differences between the "colored school" and the "white school" were staggering: the quality of the physical plant itself, the availability of current textbooks, the availability of supplies, and so on. Oftentimes, the "colored school" was given the hand-me-downs from purchases made for the "white school" - the "colored school" got the old desks, the old blackboard, the old globe, the old books. Teachers in the "colored school" (who were overwhelmingly black) were paid less than the teachers in the "white school" and were denied opportunities for advancement and for additional training. The school boards in those districts always believed that educating the white children was more important than educating the black children. The intent of racial segregation in the schools was not only to keep the races apart but to make sure that black children did not have access to better education and would therefore be unable to compete economically or challenge the system of segregation. Jim Bernstein Fulton -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anderson & Turpin Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 5:05 PM To: Mpls Forum Subject: Re: [Mpls] StarTribune, seperate racial schools, differential incarceration Jim Graham wrote: > Culturally "Specific" Schools: > In today's "List" we have someone suggesting that we should have segregated > schools for students to perform better. I know it was "politically correct" > because it advocated for separate "culturally specific" schools for Native > American and Afro American children but it was a justification for > segregated schools none the less. Since the Constitution supposedly does > not allow discrimination then of course "White" people would also be allowed > to have their own culturally specific schools. Or was the writer suggesting > that only white children be discriminated against? > > Sounds sort of like what it was like when I grew up in Arkansas, except > Indians and Asians got to be "white" there. I wonder if those African > American children in the1950's and 60's Arkansas schools received a better > education before they were forced to go to the white schools? I think the > Supreme Court ruled that "separate but equal" was separate but not too > equal. Of course the writer might have something because both White and > Black children almost always knew how to read and do math back in those bad > old days. I put that down to both White and Black families expecting their > children to succeed and demanding that they did. The amazing thing is that > those kids of both colors who were poor often went to school, and then > worked hard after school, and still received educations that were better > than what Minneapolis seems to provide for some of its children. Could it > be that "Expectations" and families do make the difference? Mark Anderson replies: I read "Brown vs Board of Education" some years ago. The US Supreme Court did not make a generalized statement that separate education leads inherently to unequal education, even though I've heard that repeated over and over. What the Supremes said was that in that specific situation of segregated schools in the Jim Crow South, where the Whites had all the political power, that racially segregated schools will always lead to lesser resources for the Black schools. I completely agree with the Court in the specific ruling they made. But I disagree with the more general case that racially segregated schools will always lead to worse schools for one race. I think years ago there was a school for Indians in Minneapolis. It was an attempt to teach these kids within the culture of their families, because so many of them were doing poorly in the regular schools. I don't know if the school was successful, but I can imagine situations where Indians might do better in such schools. Similarly, it could be beneficial for some other subcultures to have their own schools, if they are likely to fail in the integrated schools. And yes, maybe even all-White subcultures in some cases, although I can't think of any circumstances like that today. And of course it would be politically impossible. I'm sure many will think this is bigotry; but I believe it's thinking outside the box for new solutions for failing kids. Jim wrote: > Differential incarceration and enforcement: > In my neighborhood if someone is quietly smoking their rope and doing their > drugs in a house, most people could not care less. It is the open, on the > street drugs, and the related violent crime that gets people's underwear in > a bunch. Heck, I do not even mind gang bangers shooting each other if they > do it privately, only shoot each other, and do not have any stray bullets > flying around. The problem is that we have had a migration of people from > other inner cities around the country looking for drug marketing > opportunities. > > Most of this new group happens to be Black. Anyone who contests this is > either color blind or just simply blind. If you go to Franklin - Park or > Bloomington - Lake or 26th over north you will find that 90% of the drug > dealers are Black. "Why" is a different matter that should be dealt with, > but the fact that they are predominantly Black is irrefutable. Ignoring > this does not help address the "real" problem; it allows the system to > ignore it just as it allows the system to not address the differential in > academic success. Anyone saying the majority of street dealers are not Black > is a little bit like the suggestion that most Mafia gang members are not > white. Just silly! Also the drug trade these Black drug dealers are most > often involved in is on the street, so people tend to call the police on the > obvious drug dealing gangbanger on the street. Most white suburban dealing > is in a house or a hotel room not on the street corner. But I would venture > that a group of drug dealers of ANY color selling drugs, waving down cars, > and shooting dice on the corner of 50th and France would not last long. Last > long as counted in minutes, NOT the years as the problem in Jordan and > Phillips can be counted in. Mark reply: Thanks Jim, for your shot of realism into a List that sometimes lets idealism override real life. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
