Note ---- The following is a very long post. This is not Minneapolis related, but I feel compelled to addresses some of the issues brought up. For further discussions, please email me privately.
"Steven Clift" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --------------------------------- Technically creating lists and generating both the membership and facilitation capacity are very different things. I encourage Thomas and others to work to build the e-lists in their neighborhood (whether it is hosted officially by a neighborhood or on minnesota.com, etc..) and then share their lessons. The Carag Forum e-mail list has about 50 members after two years <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. We figure that the only way to significantly grow the list would be to go door to door, explain the list, and gather their opt-in e-mail addresses. Thomas T. Thai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---------------------------------- Facilitation capacity can be made easier with automated tools. There are many repetitve tasks that could be better handled or helped by programs. By taking care of redundant list management tasks, moderators will have more time focusing on other areas. I didn't choose to go with Yahoo for a few reasons: 1. The big ads at the bottom of each message. 2. My feeling is YahooGroups will start charging for their services or put tremendous restrictions on the free service they provide. 3. I didn't think YahooGroups would give me full access to their server to customize their programs and then create thousands of lists. There are some lists I'm on where the subscription rates are in the tens of thousands. But those lists have participants who go out and look for certain subjects that interest them and subscribe. Civic lists are a bit different -- like Steven said, in order to make most civic lists grow, there has to be a pro-active effort to go out and explain the lists and gather email addresses. To best organize such an effort, we need the right tools. I my previous answer to Jason C. Stone's inquiries, I mentioned other tools to help organize. These tools will help groups recruit people, assign tasks, keep up progress, measure efficiency of tasks, etc. Basically a project management tool linked to contact management and relations management that will help coordinate such goals as recruiting people for a civic list. Right now I'm laying the ground work and developing those tools. Once a tool is developed, it can be replicated easily for the next group to use. My goals will take a long time to accomplish require a lot of time and much effort. Along the way I hope to meet others who will help toward that goal. We all have busy lives and volunteers are already stretched thin. To quote David Brauer in his recent post, "It's like a long march; you have to be relentless and patient." I'm willing to do that march and hopefully others will too. David Brauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ------------------------------- Good luck to Tom - in the short term, it only increases the diffusion of neighborhood-focused discussion, but since we haven't figured out (or had time to refine) the perfect neighborhood discussion forum, I welcome fresh attempts. I think it is important to disclose the list host's ties and ideological biases; in my experience, neighborhood-centered e-listers are easily turned off by commercial sponsors or stealth agendas. Thomas T. Thai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---------------------------------- Though I agree that having multiple lists increase diffusion. However, having choices or competition if you will only create better services and give us alternative avenues to be heard. If one neighborhood benefits from what I'm doing, then in one small way or another, we've all benefited. Per my other emails, each list should be administered by elected list members. A list host's ties and idealogical biases are what I'm trying to avoid. I believe list management should be broader in representation. A group, not one entity, chosen by their peers, should represent them and draft policities and administer their list. If you could give me an example of a current disclosure that details your ties and your ideological biases, that would help me formulate a similar templates for all the lists I've created. At this point, I'm going to leave it up to the members of those lists to iron out their own idealoligical biases and nominate their peers to manage their lists. I've been lucky enough to have resources available to me to make some of this happen. If by commercial sponsors you mean ads per message, then I'd suggest anyone turned off by that to unsubscribe from any list provided by Yahoo and such. On the other hand, if you mean commercial sponsor as in a commercial company donating their server space, bandwidth, and resources to make this happen and not impose restrictions for their generousity, then we need more companies like that in this world. If you think such a company has stealth agendas, feel free to send me donations on a monthly basis so I can get servers and bandwidth else where that will provide me the same flexibility. In the mean time, if you feel generous, make the check payable to your favorite charity. Jason C Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --------------------------------------- My suggestion is to be forthcoming and proactive on the details of the 'free' community service in order to overcome a trust deficit. There is zero information on his web site in this regard. [...] David Brauer, in mentioning 'stealth agenda', succinctly describes the impression I had after leaving Mr. Thai's web site. Thomas T. Thai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---------------------------------- Jason, thank you for giving me the chance to answer your concerns via your original post. If there are additional questions by you or anyone else, feel free to email me privately. I'll collect some of those concerns and my answers to them into an FAQ and post it on http://lists.minnesota.com . I'll review the site above and welcome any suggestions to make it better. Currently it lists various lists, a how-to guide on sending text only messages, and a list of rules. For the time I had, that was the best I could do to make it easier for people to subscribe via a web form. If what is there makes you feel negatively in some way, let me know your concerns and I will try to address those issues. --- Thomas T. Thai // Whittier REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
