I do not consider vocational hammer and shovel. I consider vocational a Dunwoody-type institution. I understand Dunwoody courses are quite difficult. However, I believe some students would apply themselves there with a job on the line where they would not ordinarily in an college-prep-type situation.
Bill Dooley Kenny -----Original Message----- From: Ron Lischeid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:22 PM To: Dooley, Bill; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Minority Students Achievement Gap Mr.Dooley writes- ---Then shouldn't we push those minority students left behind into vocational training?--- Ron writes- This out-dated comment shows that there are many who remember vocational training as teaching how to use a hammer, saw, wrench or shovel. Maybe you would like to send any underachieving student (minority or otherwise) to vocational school to become: -an auto technician who diagnoses and repairs highly sophisticated computer controlled fuel management, ignition and powertrain systems and components, -a machinist who operated computer controlled CNC machines, -a building trades worker who has to read AutoCad generated blueprints, -graphics and printing trades worker who needs to deal with digital photography, desktop publishing software and computerized printing presses, -an electrician who deals with various low-to-high voltage circuits and the computerized components that are powered. Vocational schools are no longer (and haven't been since the 60's) the dumping ground for education's leftovers. If you send any student to any vocational school without reading, writing and math skills either the student will fail to qualify initially or will soon flunk out. Today's taxpayers should demand a 'cease and desist' order for social promotion in schools. As an employer I am tired of getting job applicants that indicate that they are a high school graduate but who still can't even spell the name of the street that they live on. I would challenge Mr. Dooley and others who think like he does to go visit any vocational school in the state (public or private), look at the programs being offered and then assemble a list of the minimum educational competencies that would be required to successfully complete one of these programs. Now that you have assembled this list of minimum educational competencies, you have also, in fact, compiled a list of the minimum set of skills required to allow a person to call themselves a 'high school graduate'. The problem at most vocational schools is the gap between high school graduation standards and vocational school entrance standards is too great for many students to move up the educational ladder without some intensive remedial help. It should also be pointed out that many of the high paying careers (that list members often write about) that would allow any person to lift themselves out of poverty are the same careers that vocational schools teach. In fact, many of today's vocational school students are graduates of 4-year colleges who earned academic degrees only to find out that they also need the technical skills that vocational schools offer and that is why they are back in school for another year or two. Ron Lischeid Downtown during the day, sleep in Stadium Village, office in Windom _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
