I have to mostly agree with Michael Atherton on this one. I sure as heck don't want teachers foisting their own viewpoints on my kids, whether it be religious, economic or political. Even Michael's example of comparing the ten commandments posted by the Alabama judge to the "Peace education" brochure makes a certain amount of sense. At first I thought it was a bit of a reach, but then I saw that it did make sense. Sure the judge's behavior is illegal under the Constitution as an establishment of religion, while teaching "Peace" in a public school is not. But it's an ethical matter, not a legal one. Why should it be verboten to use government resources to support a religion, but acceptable to use these resources to support a philosophic point of view?
Many have responded that all education is political. Their point of view seems to be that because one can't be completely objective, why try at all? I think it is worth the effort. There is a continuum between total objectivity and total propaganda. We can't get all the way to objectivity, but lets try to stay on that side of the line. I agree that the schools have to teach some values in order to function. "Knowledge is good" is something the schools should be demonstrating every day. The schools must value order in the classroom, or nothing would get done. And the schools must dictate which things are the most important to learn in the classroom. The schools have decided that it is important to teach Math. They could have decided that the kids will learn everything they need to know through osmosis or something. (Oh, wait a minute. The school has pretty much decided that, at least for basic arithmetic facts, through their embracing of the "Chicago Method.") But the schools do not have to teach a particular philosophical point of view, except as a study of many different politics held by various groups (and even that isn't appropriate at the elementary school level, beyond a superficial review of different groups). When I speak of objectivity, I mean teaching should be of what is known to be true, or at least accepted by the vast majority of people (in other words, we can dismiss the Flat Earth Society). Objectivity is hardest to achieve in the area of social studies, as is obvious by the big to-do about the state standards. The school does inevitably express its values by what facts it teaches in history, what countries get studied in geography, and which government processes it discusses in civics. But when the school starts making value judgments about these facts to their captive audience, they've moved into the realm of propaganda. The school obviously shouldn't support any particular religion (or religion in general). They shouldn't be teaching patriotism. And they shouldn't be teaching "Peace Education." Several posters seem to be confusing teaching "Peace" with maintaining order in the classroom. Whenever I've heard the discussion of "Peace Education," it's always related to the relationships between countries, not between individuals in a school. If you think that the two facets are related, well that's a philosophical point of view that I do not share. There is a real value to teaching peace education, or using the more old-fashioned term, teaching the delicate art of diplomacy. But to get much out of this education, the student must have a pretty good understanding of geography, history, sociology, economics, government structures, and psychology. In other words, it's probably a college course. It can only be taught at the elementary school level as propaganda. Or does someone have an idea how young kids can be taught something useful in the area of conflicts between nations? Two of the posters said that their own education in the Mpls public schools included a lot of right wing ideology being taught. Well, I hope we can strip that out also. Could you two please give examples of what you are talking about? My experience with my kids (3rd grade and 7th grade) is that they do occasionally bring home things where I see left wing ideology, but I've not once seen any right wing stuff. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
