Jeff refers to studies that he thinks talk about people's preferences with regard to transit. The Federal government reviewed a number of studies and found that people did not prefer trains over buses when the primary factors of speed, frequency, cost, and reliability of schedule were pretty much the same. He is sort of correct about transfers, but it isn't transfers between modes that people hate, but transferring at all. The time spent waiting is generally perceived as twice as long as it really is by the clock.
Nathan talks about the AAA cost of operation estimate for cars. That is based upon buying a (mid-sized?) car every three years, along with insurance, maintenance, and fuel. I buy a car about every 15 years. If you already own a car, then you really need to look at the incremental cost of driving his 20 mile round trip. Depending on speed, etc., that trip can be done with a gallon of gas. Now, you pro-rate his annual work mileage against total mileage and apportion the other variable costs. Don't include insurance unless the rate specifies a higher premium for the commute-related mileage, and then only pro-rate the incremental cost. The cost of a 20 mile commute for me is less than $2. We don't yet know what the cost of a 20 mile prt round trip would be. What's a rush hour round trip like that cost on the bus? Depends on the begin and end points, whether it's an express, etc. $3.50 at least, on a system that's 2/3 subsidized. Nathan talks about how he thinks prt will get him to Cub, the U, etc. Maybe so, but it depends on where the stop is related relative to his destination. Maybe he will carry two armloads of groceries 2 or 3 blocks. Remember that the $400-600 million is for a system that only covers from I-94 to roughly Lake Street, Hennepin to Hiawatha. I haven't tried to figure out the area, but it looks like 1.5 miles by 4.5 miles. Just to extend that south to the Crosstown is about 2.5 times the area. Now think about east to the river, west to France, north and northwest. I'm sure someone here has the number of square miles in Minneapolis handy. What fraction of the city is 6.25 square miles? Many locations within the prt system will be more than 1/4 mile from stops, which is what the FTA usually expects to be the farthest people will want to walk to transit. Remember that running a prt system through downtown involves a lot of dollars and changes within the existing system of buildings and downtown is where a lot of current transit goes. I said yesterday that I would probably favor government-bought prt, but I should mention that I would only do that if it showed no great cost increment over the bus. I can support privately financed prt, which is something that prt advocates around the country often talk about. Nathan talks about dedicated bus lanes. That makes sense in some situations, where there is the space. In Los Angeles, they did a study of the amount of time spent by the bus in different phases of operation. They found (if I remember correctly) that the time actually spent in motion on the route was about 25%, picking up passengers was about the same. There are simpple things that can be done to speed up buses, such as locating the stop on the "far" sideof an intersection, so that once the passengers have boarded, the bus can go without waiting for a light. If anyone cares about the other 50%, I'll look it up, I think it's on the web site of their transit agency, MTA. Visit www.EffectiveTransit.org The Independent Unsibsidized Voice of Citizens for Effective Transit in the Twin Cities * lrt isn't a potato ochip, you can stop at just one * Bruce Gaarder Highland Park Saint Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
