On 5/6/04 11:44 PM, "Dyna Sluyter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 08:06 AM, Chris Johnson wrote: > >> My view of the folks voicing support is that they fit into one of three >> categories: >> 1. Ignorant of the facts. > > Chris, thank you for so nicely insulting our intelligence. Umm, someone needs to consult a dictionary. Despite constant misuse of this term, ignorant does not mean stupid. It means unaware. I believe Chris is arguing that folks supporting Crown Hydro may not have some of the facts in front of them that others have. Judging by the comments made by Crown Hydro supporters at the Park Board meeting, I'd say this argument is pretty much on-target. > That dirty old generator seems to run more every year. In fact, the > other day it was running to take the Post Office offline when it was > only 72 degrees out. Now as we are seeing it's near impossible to site > new clean power here in the Mill City. Nuclear power is going nowhere > and any new coal plant will be hundreds of miles away. Yet each year > our population increases and demand for energy with it. Where is that > energy going to come from? Hopefully not from nuclear. Anyone who thinks that is a pollution-free source of energy truly deserves to be called ignorant. It might be a good idea to remember that some of that new energy capacity will come from Xcel Riverside in five years. Not only will the switch to natural gas significantly cut emissions, but it will also boost generating capacity by 80 megawatts. The High Bridge project in St. Paul will increase generating capacity by 270-280 megawatts. http://www.xcelenergy.com/XLWEB/CDA/0,3080,1-1-1_11824_11839_12436-877-0_0_0 -0,00.html That's an addition of at least 350 megawatts to the local grid for about $600 million or $1.7 million per megawatt. Compared to these projects, Crown Hydro ($10 million for 3.2 megawatts) is a very expensive drop in the bucket. > More dirty old diesels. A megawatt of solar power capacity costs about > $10,000,000. Wind and small hydro are just as clean for a bit less > investment. I don't have details from local projects about costs for solar, maybe someone associated with the Green Institute can share the costs and generating capacity for their new rooftop solar panel system. However, I do know wind energy costs nowhere near $10 million per megawatt. New wind turbine installations are being planned in Northfield right now that will run about $1 million per megawatt, or less than one-third the cost of the Crown Hydro project. This outstanding project is a joint venture between Carleton College, the Northfield School District and RENew Northfield. http://webapps.acs.carleton.edu/campus/facilities/news/?issue_id=35932&story _id=36340 > But a dirty thirty year old locomotive can be had for less > than $100,000 and will put out a couple megawatts of dirty power. Said > dirty old locomotive/generator is also scarcely regulated, being a > grandfathered "mobile source". Where do you think the investor's money > will go? Then there's the horde of aging "emergency" generators, > similar to the Post Office's. With new clean power projects blocked > they'll be belching away 24 hours a day. Sorry to disappoint any potential investors, but these locomotive "generators" would certainly not be regulated as "mobile sources" and would probably not be allowed to run as backup generators because that's not what they were designed for. This may come as a shock to some people, but the air permit engineers at MPCA do actually know what they're doing and they're not going to allow stunts like that to take place. As for the "emergency generators" those are regulated by MPCA as stationary sources. They usually are lumped in with whatever other sources of air pollution exist at a given facility, such as boilers or manufacturing processes. For example, here's a link to an air quality permit issued a few months ago to the 3M facility in Maplewood: http://www.pca.state.mn.us/air/permits/issued/ 12300694-001-aqpermit.pdf Information on their diesel emergency generators can be found starting on page 9. Interestingly, their diesel generators are limited to 500 operating hours per year. Mark Snyder Windom Park "The most violent element in society is ignorance." - Emma Goldman REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
