I resent the implications below that I was somehow perpetuating a Reaganesque stereotype. It is my understanding from reading my newspaper, that Section 8 housing is in short supply relative to the need; one of the reasons for this is fear, justified or not, of property owners that filling this need is going to lead to losses of one kind or another. I don't know the Section 8 law, but I suspect that cohousing could fit the requirements and help solve this shortage problem what ever number of certificates needed over the 5000-6000 supplied by MPHA sited below. Again, I feel that the authors below are attempting to stereotype me. I am thankful to Gary Hoover who responded to the point of what I wrote, that cohousing or cooperative housing can serve a role in public housing policy to address all sorts of society's problems. As to the others, ;-) this bigoted misanthrope would throw them out of their digs if he could. Be afraid, be very afraid;-)
Bill Kahn Prospect Park ******************************************* Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:03:36 -0500 From: "Gregory Luce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Mpls] Need a Smoke-ban Break? Let's talk housing To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Kahn wrote: I've often thought that instead of the status quo hodgepodge of federal, state, and local housing policies resulting in the inadequate system we have now, e.g., Barb Lickness's Section 8 neighbor who hosts gang bangers and druggies, what we really need is a mix of housing types metrowide that actually lifts a culture of poverty into the mainstream, for better or worse. [Me]: I agree Bill Kahn's general point to suggest the need for a mix of housing types. But just want to cut to the quick on some unfortunate stereotypes that he suggests. The overwhelming experience with Section 8 (now called the Housing Choice Voucher Program) is positive. Section 8 is not synonymous with 'gang bangers and druggies,' nor should Barb's experience be seen as an example of the 'inadequacy' of the federal Section 8 housing system. A misperception, yes, but it's a misperception just as damaging and demeaning as assuming that most people in Minnesota who receive welfare are black (they're not). Bill Kahn again: Section 8 housing in certain parts of our cities is not a great deal better as Lickness's experience attests. [Me]: The Minneapolis Public Housing Agency (MPHA) administers some 5,000 or so Section 8 Vouchers city-wide (though it may be 6,000 or so, my brain and the MPHA site are both fritzing at the moment). The vast majority of the tenants who benefit from the vouchers are lease and law-abiding, just as the vast majority of tenants generally are lease and law-abiding. There are always bad eggs, just as there are bad eggs in every situation, organization, municipality, and neighborhood. All this said (and said as more of a check on misperceptions than as a suggested direction of the discussion), I'm a fan of co-housing myself and would like to see more opportunities for it in the city. Gregory Luce St. Paul Message: 6 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Lickness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Mpls] Need a Smoke-ban Break? Let's talk housing To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am absolutely in line with Greg Luce on this one. The craziness and evil behavior going on in the house across the street from me is not a reflection of section 8, public housing or low income people. It is a reflection on one family. A family that is completely "out of control". A family that as Victoria Heller put it was able to slip through all the tenant screening mechanisms built to prevent problem tenants from renting the place. I have 6 2 1/2 story walk-ups on my block as well as several duplexes. I am sure some of the tenants are using section 8 certificates to rent. One of the buildings is an affordable housing cooperative. All of the tenants in these buildings are fine neighbors. Public Housing has made extensive attempts to locate families into their housing portfolios that exist all over town. There is even some in affluent neighborhoods. Quite frankly in most cases you wouldn't know the difference between a scattered site house and a regular house. The families in these houses blend into neighborhoods just like anyone else living there. Unfortunately, when we get one "out of control" family people want to start condemning the whole system. The system works just fine. It does not need fixing. The "out of control" family needs fixing. It does not appear to me right now that they want to be fixed. I have heard people say on this forum and the Whittier forum that we need to support this "out of control" family, nurture them and help lift them from their problems. Give me a break! You are assuming they want to be lifted from their evil plight. I am here to tell you that there are mediation services, treatment programs, social programs and tons of other intervention processes in place to help people and families who want to change. The problem is you have to want to change. You can't make somebody do something they don't want to do. Like any behavior change it must begin from within. Ask any recovering alcoholic or drug addict. Right now it appears to me that this family is more driven by the perception of material wealth gained from drug dealing and selling guns than they are in finding a way to live a productive contributing life, "gramma" included. Don't condemn section 8 and public housing because a few people on these programs screw up. Both of them are working just fine for the most part. Barb Lickness Whittier ===== "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
