There are already quite a number of "private clubs" in Minneapolis and one does not need a change in the Minneapolis City Charter to open one! The private clubs include veterans groups, golf/country club, women's clubs, service clubs, ethnic/cultural clubs, at least one athletic club, and probably some others that do not come mind right now.
Changing the City Charter to exempt some establishments from health and safety ordinances while requiring others to conform is of dubious legality and obvious political chicanery! A City Charter prescribes governance and organization for the city. It should not to be used as an end run around the ordinance making responsibility of the city council! It is even sadder to think that someone would consider this tactic after a new ordinance passes on a 12-1 vote of the city council and the signature of the mayor! The Minneapolis Charter Commission is nearing the end of a year long process of re-drafting the Minneapolis City Charter (but NOT changing form of governance or organization) that cleans up an existing charter that is loaded up with obsolete references and language, conflicting instructions, as well as baggage added haphazardly over the past 100 years or so! FYI to all list members, the Charter Commission will be presenting the re-drafted City Charter for public hearing and comment in September and October! Stay tuned for specific dates, times, and locations. Jim Bernstein Fulton -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of phaedrus Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Re: Smoking Ban For the record, my position on local level smoking bans has shifted slightly since I previously posted on the subject. While I would not personally choose it, I would not have a problem with a community passing a smoking ban as long as it: * Allowed for the existence of private clubs which would be permitted to operate without the same restrictions. They would function more or less in the same way that private homes do, but the guests coming over for a drink, party, pool, or music would be paying their hosts for the service. * Allow any currently licensed establishments to become private clubs before the ban begins. It isn't too late for these adjustments to take place... That said, it was asserted that: > At our behest, government protects us (the greater > public) from that what will harm us. "Our"? That is not what I want. My behest is that the government protect me from being unwittingly or unwillingly exposed to that which will harm me. I would claim the right to knowingly and willingly put myself in harms way. I recognize society's right to attempt to dissuade me from doing so, but if government seeks to forcibly prevent me from making my own decision, I would claim the right to defy them. (Axiom 4, right Michael?) Unfortunately, my claims must be tempered by the fact that I moved to Minneapolis. On November 2nd, 1920, the city charter was passed which included: >From Ch.4, � 5: "The City Council shall have full power and authority to make ... ordinances for the government and good order of the City, for the suppression of vice and intemperance, and for the prevention of crime, as it shall deem expedient, and in and by the same to declare and impose penalties and punishments, and enforce the same against any person or persons who may violate the provisions of any ordinance, passed and ordained by it, and all such ordinances are hereby declared to be and to have the force of law." also. "said City Council shall have authority by such ordinances: ... also to license and regulate all ... pool and billiard tables, bowling alleys, ... taverns, restaurants, cafes and cafeterias, and all persons vending, dealing in or disposing of spirituous, vinous, fermented or malt liquors." Disposing of! Unless I'm mistaken, this gives the city the right to pass ordinances which would regulate me should I choose to serve wine to a guest. Although I wasn't aware of it at the time, by moving here, I chose a city that will attempt to suppress vices. By starting a business here, or taking a job here, one accepts similar limitations. I guess that we did "behest" our government to take the role of an impersonal parent after all. By passing that charter in 1920, or by moving here while it was in effect, we gave them that power. Should we wish to reclaim those rights, we have three options: Convince the city to change the charter or ordinances, ignore or defy the law, or move to some place that has not given up their rights in exchange for a more harmonious society. While the idea of a more harmonious society is nice, those who would use government dictates to enforce that harmony often have a different concept of harmony than I do. So, reviewing the options I like best: I can choose to work to amend the city charter to allow the existence of "private clubs" which would not be regulated by city licenses, or at least not to the same degree. I can choose to accept the latest dictate in the suppression of vice. I'm already legally denied gambling (mostly), prostitution (either end of the business, if you will), and most other drugs. In light of that, restricting my right to smoke while working at or patronizing a nightclub is pretty minor. I can choose to suffer the pain and challenge of uprooting and move to somewhere with more freedom. I can choose to support illegal and underground clubs and events, should any crop up. I've always enjoyed raves, and from my grandparents' stories, speakeasies were a hoot. (Unfortunately, illegal vices built violent criminal empires!) Of course, if all they offer is smoke, I'm not overly enthused. In any case, in a few short months, any legal, licensed club in Minneapolis will have a much healthier atmosphere. While I abhor the idea that there is no way for a group of people to sell food or liquor to another group of people while some of them smoking - even if all concerned consent, there is a little selfish part of me does look forward to March 31st. - Jason Goray Sheridan, NE. This is an open request: Please stop making such angry attacks against those of us on the opposite side of an issue. In the case of one of the most vitrolic contributers, I've been informed that in the real world, you're a decent person. Unfortunately, it is hard to see in this forum where you hurl hateful invective at those of us who are debating their point of view from a sense of idealism. Just because it is a different ideal than you hold doesn't mean we are evil or that we don't want what's best for society - we just see a different way to get there. It is difficult to read some of the posts without taking the assaults personally and wanting to respond in kind, even though to do so would reduce this forum. It was due to the anger generated by one contributor's posts that I needed to take a break from this list, lest I violate the list rules and decorum. I'm back, and I have a bit of emotional reserve, but I would prefer not to waste it needlessly. I respect the idea that if an issue is important, it is worth getting passionate about. The thing is, most issues have passionate people on both sides, and refusing to temper one's passions in a disagreement leads to many evils. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
