This is one truly lost cause. The view is not worth confronting. Andy Driscoll St. Paul
on 9/15/04 7:22 PM, Michael Atherton wrote: > > David Brauer wrote: > >> Because there's more to life than standardized tests - such as >> music and art. > > Standardized tests shouldn't represent much more than a day or > two a year of a child's life, but the failure to receive a > basic education can impact an entire lifetime. Just ask > the tens of thousands of African American males who are currently > incarcerated in this country. > > As a high school dropout I can tell you that the importance > of art and music is over-appreciated compared to the ability > to earn a living wage. The percentage of people making a > living wage through art and music is probably on par with > that of those making a living in professional sports. > >> This is the insidiousness of the test-performance culture: >> anything you can't measure that way gets obliterated. > > The insidiousness of poverty is that you CAN measure its > negative effects. > >> I know test-measured skills are critical. But more critical >> is a well-rounded education for the whole mind. > > Well-rounded don't mean squat when you're sitting in a jail cell. > This perspective seems very class-centric. Maybe we should > have a parent exchange program and let middle-class parents > live in poverty for a while to make them more well rounded. > >> One of my biggest fears for the Mpls schools is they won't be >> able/allowed to educate all expressions of intelligence. > > "All expressions of intelligence?" Drug dealing is an > expression of intelligence, should the Mpls schools be > able/allowed to teach it? > >> Not to mention that music, especially, is an excellent way to >> learn math. > > Music is not an excellent way to teach math, math is an > excellent way to teach math. The mathematics you can teach > with music is very limited. > > and WizardMarks wrote: > >> The reason kids are given music and art opportunities in schools >> ties directly with how the brain develops. Art develops hand/eye/mind >> connections. Music is important to mathematical brain development. It >> cannot be optional, no matter the circumstances of each particular child >> vis-a-vis the language school is taught in. It's probably more important >> to those for whom English is a second language. > > Well great here we are in an area that I actually happen to know > a little something about, it just happens to be my area of research. > Music and art don't tie more directly to how the brain develops than > any other type of specialized perceptual or motor activity (and I'll > be able to refute any reference you come up with). Music has some very > indirect effects on mathematical ability, but it is certainly not > *important* mathematical brain development (whatever the heck > mathematical brain development is). If you want children to perform > well on musical activities teach them music. If you want to perform well > on mathematical activities teach them math. > > My wife and I are continually astounded by the overemphasis on arts > and music in Minneapolis. It seems like living on the Prairie has > instilled a cultural sense of insecurity in mid-westerners. Go on > a tour of a public school in Minneapolis the first thing they > show you is their art, music, and theater classes. Ask them where > there math lab is and they'll stare at you blankly. One of the > most amusing features of this insecurity is that people somehow > have developed the belief that creativity is somehow intrinsically > related to the Arts, i.e. that if you teach children art you > are teaching them to be creative. Pretty silly, no? > > Michael Atherton > Prospect Park > > > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > ________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
