On Sep 17, 2004, at 9:12 AM, Michael Atherton wrote:
I'll bring this back to Minneapolis because I'm just amazed at the irrational responses generated by this topic and I'm interesting in knowing how representative they are. That's why I started this thread. Other than one private school in Minneapolis, I have not met anyone in this city who truly supports a strong emphasis for math and science.
So what is your evidence to back this up? Where are the studies to show teacher attitudes toward curriculum? Where is your evidence stating how many curriculum hours the Minneapolis schools devote to Math, Science, and Arts? Where is your evidence of Minneapolis graduation requirements in these Subjects? Further, if there are more private and charter schools that concentrate on Arts than Math and Science - let's see the evidence - but also, isn't that more an indication of the marketplace for education?
As stated above, you have not convinced anyone (it would seem) that there is "an overemphasis on Arts and a serious lack of emphasis on Math and Science". You have also failed to show why it is that math and science ought to be of greater prominence. Where is your evidence that folks who have 'your ideal level of Math and Science education' (which is what?) better off (by what measures?) than folks who have arts education?
I have never stated that the Arts are not a positive aspect of human culture or that they should not be included in the curriculum of the MPS. What I have said, repeatedly, is that there appears to be an overemphasis on Arts and a serious lack of emphasis on Math and Science. Am I to assume that you are opposed to Math and Science receiving at least equal treatment in our public schools?
I have also argued that literacy is more important than the Arts and given that the MPS cannot seem to provide an even basic level of literacy for all of its students, that an emphasis on Arts is misplaced. So, I would like to ask list members to rank the following on their importance to public education in Minneapolis:
The arts provide its own type of literacy, so you might want to clarify the type of literacy that you speak. Also, as above, it doesn't seem like an "emphasis on Arts" in MPS has been shown, perhaps you have meant to claim and overemphasis, which has also yet to be proved.
1. Literacy 2. Critical Thinking 3. Math 4. Science 5. Arts
Assume that this is a forced choice survey and you cannot rank topics on the same level. Please feel free to send your response to me offline. The ordering above is obviously my own ranking.
I do appreciate this survey attempt, but also believe that having some sense of how MPS treats these five subjects would be a more meaningful survey of what folks think MPS should be concentrating on.
Michael Atherton Prospect Park
PS: Just a moment ago I check the list and found two new posts. One, from Gary Hoover about the wonderful sense of self that he derives from this children learning art and community; and another from Donald Greeley titled, "3 More Murdered in Minneapolis: Who's to Blame?" Doesn't anyone see the irony in an educational system emphasizing art that produces so many dropouts and criminals? Is what we need more art or literacy and job skills?
I guess I also missed the post that showed that the educational system "produced so many dropout and criminals" as opposed to say the economic system (which arguably impacts the educational system).
Are you critiquing the claim that Gary Hoover appreciates, and seemingly finds fulfillment in his children engaging in arts and community? Are peoples, and parents, feelings about life unimportant if not measurable?
jon. kelland chicago formerly bryant
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