Mark Snyder wrote: << We've seen Doug Mann make this claim repeatedly, but other than the story
about his kid, I can't really recall anything else he's said in this forum, nor did I see anything on his campaign's web site to actually back up this theory of his that ability-grouping is occurring so rampantly throughout the MPS, though I remember other parents of MPS students disputing it. >> Doug Mann answered: [Quote from SW Journal] << David Heistad, the Executive Director of Testing Evaluation and Student Information for Minneapolis Public Schools, said they don't uniformly test student IQ levels but do separate students in the elementary grades into groups by reading abilities. "Most teachers in the world, at least in the United States, do some sort of reading groups. We certainly wouldn't call that ability grouping, because those reading groups are based on whether students are sounding out the basic words... or whether they are really struggling with the basics and don't have the phonemic awareness down," Heistad said. "Typically, the teacher in first grade will divide [students] into a couple groups so each student can work at their own pace. But those groups are very flexible and teachers assess them throughout the year. That's a big step from ability grouping," he said.>> http://www.swjournal.com/articles/2002/10/22/export5473.txt Mark Anderson adds: I'm glad Mark Snyder brought this up. I may be one of the parents who disputed Doug in the past, although I don't remember. I do think that Doug has greatly over-stated the amount of tracking that goes on. Admittedly, my experience is from just one school, Bancroft Elementary, but it sounds like (below) that Doug's experience of tracking is also from only one school, in addition to the one quote he has above, and some vague recommendations of the school district. At Bancroft, kids are sorted into three classes in fourth and fifth grade for math and reading, based on ability. Otherwise, there is no official tracking at the school. I have heard that some teachers in the lower grades break out their kids somewhat for reading, at least to give them different assignments. This is based on each teacher's methods, not based on school policy, although I see the quote above gives them tacit approval for this. I don't really see how Doug can complain about this. Should the teachers assign kids to read books when they don't even know their letters yet? Should no kids be encouraged to read books because some of their peers can't do it? The only other policy that Bancroft seems to have is very anti-tracking. They try hard to assign kids of differing abilities to each class. I get very annoyed at this. They seem to be trying to make the teacher's job as difficult as possible, just to be more politically correct. Doug, you certainly haven't convinced me that tracking hurts the education process. It makes no sense to me to teach the same thing to kids with a wide variety of knowledge -- some kids will have no comprehension of the subject, and to others it will be redundant. I think the best way to teach would be for kids to do their own thing as often as possible, or in small groups with kids grouped by their level of knowledge. But Doug would damn all such schooling as tracking. I think Atherton suggested not long ago that students should be sorted by what they know, not by grades, at least in the older years. I wholeheartedly agree with that. I don't think that would work for the elementary years, but the kids need to be sorted somehow so they can be taught at the level they're at. Tracking has disadvantages, but I don't see a better way. Doug Mann wrote: Ability-grouping as Heistad defines it has been illegal since the 1970s. Students may not be assigned to separate classrooms for the entire day based on a single test of academic or cognitive ability, but may be assigned to classrooms in various subject areas on the basis of assessed ability (what they can do, scores on achievement tests, etc.) "Ability-grouping" is allowed if the groupings are "flexible," which means that students are periodically reassessed, and may be considered "flexible" even if there is absolutely no movement from group to group over the course of a year, even several years, and even if ability-grouping practices result in greater differences in education-related outcomes between racial groups. - (Source: Equal Educational Opportunity and Nondiscrimination for minority students: Federal Enforcement of Title VI in Ability Grouping Practices, Equal Educational Opportunity Project Series, Volume IV, A Report of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, September 1999, heading: OCR's enforcement activities, subheading: Title VI compliance standards, pages 60-61.) Mark Anderson replies: Doug, I was worried when you said ability grouping was illegal. But then your description of the source document contradicted your statement, which I was glad to see. Dug Mann: In the fall of 1997, first grade students at Audubon Elementary school (now Lake Harriet) were ability-grouped into separate classrooms for reading instruction within 2 weeks after school started, and students in the low and medium ability classrooms were further subdivided in instructional groups according to perceived ability. This part-time tracking was particularly objectionable because the rest of the curriculum is reading based. I went to the teachers, then up the chain of command to seek corrective action: to the principal, the superintendent, then the board of directors, which sets the policy. The result: No action. Why? The first grade teachers at Aububon were following the district's policy, as set forth in the curriculum content standards for English Language Arts, reading and writing. I requested and received a copy of every (teachers edition) curriculum content standards booklet for grades K-12. The booklets for K-6 Language Arts, reading and writing, dated July 1997 recommend assigning students to instructional groups according to ability. Carol Johnson was the head of curriculum development for a year prior to leaving the district for the superintendent gig in St. Louis Park. Mark Anderson: So your experience at Audubon indicates some tracking, and the district recommended it in some cases. From what I've seen of kids in the first few years of school, the kids are at such varied stages, I don't see how you can teach them together. Doug Mann: Also in 1997 the district requested and received a matching grant from the state to do testing for gifted programs. The district also mandated gifted programming at any school where at least one parent requested that their child be placed in a gifted program, provided that child meets the criteria for placement in a gifted program. About half of MN school districts did not apply for the 1997 matching grant for gifted testing, which was appropriation specifically earmarked for gifted education since the early 1980s. In the early 1980s about half of MN school districts did not have gifted and talented programs and did not condone "ability-grouping" as I have used the term. Mark Anderson: The gifted programs are pull-outs from the regular classroom. Is this tracking? By the way, it's been my experience that these pull-outs did more harm than good. Partly because our son was regularly pulled out of math instruction, we needed to get him private tutoring after fifth grade to catch him up. When they wanted to do the same thing with our daughter, we refused. By the way, Mark Snyder, I think you give the voters too much credit when you suggest that Doug didn't make the cut because of his concern about a non-existent problem. I doubt that most of the voters even knew his opinions. Looking at the votes for the School Board, it looks to me that the main criterion for election is Party endorsement. The top five vote-getters are or previously were endorsed by the DFL, and the sixth was endorsed by the Republicans. And the DFL endorsed have always prevailed in previous years. Anyone who wants to be on the School Board needs to suck up to the delegates at the DFL convention. There is no other way to get elected. I am kind of surprised the Board is as good as it is. I guess the DFL delegates aren't as horrible as I imagined. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 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