Point of information, can anyone recommend a good cigar friendly establishment in either Ramsey or Anoka County? Ability to serve booze is not as important as atmosphere. Any serious suggestions would be helpful. Sarcastic ones will be expected, but please have the decency to make them funny.
Jeremy Wieland Northeast -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Hennepin County Passes Smoking Ban On October, 12th, it was announced that Hennepin County Commissioners voted 5-2 to implement a county-wide smoking ban along the lines of the Minneapolis ordinance set to take effect March 31st, 2005. The language of the ordinance can be viewed here http://www.co.hennepin.mn.us/vgn/portal/internet/hcdetailmaster/0,2300,1273_ 1716_111955753,00.html The pertinent definition of what's covered by the ban can be viewed here http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/arule/4626/0020.html All of this information and more is also available here http://www.smokeoutgary.org This latest development has prompted discussion of a state-wide ban to "level the playing field." Apparently the Minneapolis-Hennepin areas may find their decisions bad for business if other markets are allowed to set their own competing standards. The smoking bans are coming in fast and furious around the twin-cities now. It seems the anti-smoking movement, equipped with funds drawn directly from the pockets of their adversaries (smokers, tax-payers, and tobacco companies) have gathered some considerable momentum. Neither the Minneapolis nor Hennepin bans address a fundamental issue: Liberty. Fascists have long used the rallying cry, "for the public good" to impose their views on everyone else. The respective ordinances do not respect freedom of association, personal property rights, or the intelligence of the citizens, insofar as their ability to make their own decisions. An organization of smokers, owned, operated, and for smokers cannot under either ordinance gather in a private club opened for the explicit purpose of smoking, regardless of any warnings posted outside the club, regardless, even of a requirement that members be smokers. Even if waivers were signed before entry. This is an intolerable infringement on liberty. At the same time Minneapolis, Ramsey and Hennepin Counties (and now the state) are pushing smoking bans, Minneapolis has a movement in favor of incrementally legalizing marijuna, and a very serious attempt to include provisions for it in the City Charter. It's been my experience that many in Minneapolis who are in favor of banning tobacco are also in favor of legalizing marijuna. The city has gone mad. I forsee that this latest batch of bans is only the beginning, and organizers of the anti-smoking movement admit themselves, that they are a long way from accomplishing their ultimate goals. Soon, the bans will come to cars, out-door spaces, then, once they have all the smokers cornered, they'll ban it in their homes as well (but don't stop buying them, we need the tax money). The latest bans in Minneapolis and Hennepin County are just opening the door. Once it's open, anything can come in. Into our homes. Into our private lives. Businesses are private property, owned by a person, or group of people. People forget that businesses, while open to the public are not "public buildings" the public does not own them. The public does not even have a fundamental right to enter. They are made open to the public at the invitation of the owner. In any business, you are a guest, welcomed in because you have money to spend. Perhaps you've seen the signs present in most businesses "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Businesses are private property. Like houses. Were I to have a party in my home, and invite the neighborhood over, would my home then become a "Public Building?" It would be amazingly rude were any of my guests to demand I forbid smoking at my party; an outlandish intrusion on my property rights were the government to tell me to do so. You don't like being around smoke, decline my hypothetical invitation. A business is no different. It's private property. Ultimately, smoking bans should be up to the owners, but if government feels so compelled to regulate it, shouldn't some provision in law be made for smokers to assemble in an establishment of their own making to freely enjoy this legal social activity? The arrogant and overbearing nature of these smoking bans should frighten anyone. Smokers and non-smokers alike. What's next? Dan McGrath Longfellow http://www.smokeoutgary.org REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
