Contrary to Robert Goldman, IRV is not just a means of political self expression. It is merely a means for a voter to say: "This candidate, A, is my first choice but if he or she doesn't win, count my vote for B. It is only what we would do if we had a series of run off elections until a candidate achieved over 50% of the vote. Elected officials being chosen by over 50% of the voters is, I presume, a democratic value and not just a means of political self expression. At least under IRV, an elected official will, in some sense, have been selected by over 50% of the voters, even if the selection meant that official received the most first, second, third choices, etc. A voter who really wanted Nader but who was afraid of Bush winning could vote for Nader as his or her first choice, then Kerry as the second choice, etc without having to worry about their vote backfiring by electing Bush. If dismissing IRV as "a means of political self expression" is the strongest argumen t against it, IRV has won the day. To quibble about the cost when conducting elections is a minor item in the list of government expenses and it is to let concern over a comparatively small matter distract us from the benefits of a vastly more important change. However, computers counting up the first, second, third, fourth, etc choices makes the expense much less than it would be if we had to conduct a series of run off elections. However, I disagree with Jesse Mortensen in that I consider IRV within each council ward superior to proportional representation in one large, city wide ward. There is the advantage of the Council member being nearer to the people who elected her or him, as nearer to being a neighbor of the voters. I presume keeping elected officials closer to being neighbors of the voters who elected them is a Green value. Minorities find it easier to achieve representation on City Councils when the elections take place in wards where they are concentrated rather than City wide. There are probably a number of south Minneapolis wards where a Green could be elected if the voters did not have to worry about throwing the election to a Republican. I can illustrate my objection to citywide, at large elections by asking why don't you carry at large elections to their logical extreme and elect the U.S. Congress at large. People would be even less likely to know their Congressional representatives than they do now. I know we could conduct elections as they do in some European countries and have the parties present a numbered list of candidates and, if a given party received a given percentage of the vote, they would receive that percentage of the seats in Congress. But still, fewer people would know their Congresspeople than they do now and there are states where a Green or minority would have a better chance of being elected than if they had to run at large nationally. Robert Halfhill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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