David Finke: I was curious about the identity of the anonymous group. Could you let us know? I've run across several versions of IRV, some fair, some resulting in distortions of electoral outcomes as bad or worse than what we have now. It seems the resolution is dangerously vague in not specifying any details.
Me: Fair questions. In reply, there is no formal group organizing around the issue of IRV - unfortunately. FairVote MN is the only formal group locally that works on this issue and is part of the nationwide FairVote organization. It is, however, an educational group, not an organizing group. I'm simply one of a few Minneapolis folks (some coming from this list) informally coming together to work on the issue of IRV at present. There's no hidden agenda here, other than to advance the idea of IRV as a possible voting method for municipal elections. Perhaps after lots of debate on the idea, IRV will turn out to be a bad one. But I talk to lots of people about IRV and I've found that (1) most people don't know what it is and (2) once they do, most like it. My aim now is to create public interest in and continue educating ourselves about IRV. It's not the first time IRV has been promoted in Minneapolis - a petition drive was tried in 1997 (organized primarily by the Green Party), but it didn't gather enough signatures because it didn't have enough organization behind it, and perhaps because the idea was premature. IRV is has now been approved or is being seriously considered in various states and municipalities throughout the country and it's because it has many advantages over the current runoff and plurality-based systems now in place. The Minnesota League of Women Voters recently released a thorough study of IRV and other voting methods, and is currently discussing whether or not to formally endorse IRV for municipal and state offices. Our very informal group exchanges emails, we have met a few times and have talked to council members and others to get their insight on the issue. In my conversations to date with some of the council members, I would say that no one is fully committed to the idea, some are more educated and supportive of the idea than others, but all are interested in learning more. An educational study session with the city council is in the works. Perhaps the city council or charter commission would recommend a study group on IRV, with resulting recommendations. At some point, a more organized group would be needed to move IRV forward, if the energy, interest and support are there. A petition drive may be needed to get a charter amendment on the ballot. The charter commission could put it on the ballot without a petition drive, but even if this were to happen, an organized public education campaign would be needed to educate voters about what IRV is and how it would work. In previous posts, I've volunteered my name for contact simply out of my own interest. I'll do it again - anyone interested in IRV, please contact me. I'm not as studied as others, but I'll attempt to answer some of the questions regarding the integrity of IRV. First, I'm not aware of 'various' forms of IRV, though IRV is one of many alternative voting me thods. IRV would work as described in the resolution - there's only one way to tabulate the votes in IRV (and it can be done with a relatively inexpensive modification to our present optical scan machine equipment). A different form of ranked-cumulative voting can be used in multiple seat district elections where proportional representation is possible. This is not how Minneapolis council is currently organized. Second, regarding the concern about IRV resulting in an undesired outcome, you might be referring to a possible, though rare as I understand, outcome in a three way race in which a compromise candidate can be eliminated and a more extreme candidate elected. This could happen if two extreme candidates (in comparison to the third candidate) have strong core support and each garner a larger (but less than majority) share of the vote than the third candidate. The moderate candidate would then be eliminated in the first round, even if preferred by a majority as a compromise over the other candidates, and one of the more extremist candidates is elected. While this outcome is possible, it's highly unlikely from everything I've read about IRV. No voting method is perfect, particularly the method we now use, and IRV would be a big improvement (for all the reasons I've stated previously). IRV is particularly beneficial for single seat offices that can result in a winner with less than majority support, like our past two governors. I'd like to see IRV for state offices (and federal too), but I think we need to demonstrate its value and do-ability locally first. In Minneapolis our council members and mayor are elected with a majority of support, but through two runoffs - the primary and general election. The problem is that primaries attract a very small share of the voters, who then determine the first cut of candidates for the rest of the voters at the general election. I can say and hope all I want that primaries are open to everyone and are - in theory - a reasonable way to have a first runoff. But it won't change the reality that the vast majority of people don't turn out for municipal primaries and miss out on the first round of voting. Organizations that do voter turnout drives put effort into getting voters out once, not twice. Moreover, IRV fixes the problem of voting for someone you don't want to vote for. You can vote for your preferred candidate and not worry about "wasting" your vote. Lastly, regarding the resolution - there's nothing official about it - it's an effort to raise awareness - and anyone who wants to improve on it, please do so and forward it back to me. Jeanne Massey Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[email protected] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
