I prefer a total ban too. But we have for a while to deal with throwbacks like Kelly and Pawlenty and their BigTobacco lovin' ilk.
So looking just at employees, what would the insurance cost? How much? What risk do the masters of risk calculate? What risk that the bar owners (today's objects of tender concern) push off on the lungs of employees? How much do the sick employees wind up subsidizing the profits of the employers? --- Partly new topic: suppose NON-SMOKING bar business IMPROVES for say 95% of bar owners, so that they are making MORE money at the end of the year than before. How many of them are likely to keep on talking of "smokers rights"? More money, and NO insurance lawsuit question/threat? Guess. Who then stands to lose? Big Tobacco. Tobacco retailers. Tobacco smokers who like to smoke in all the bars and don't want to quit and don't mind that their "freedom" is bought at the parallel denial of freedom to non-smokers. The smoking "culture" - with luck, in another generation, smoky bar scenes will be behind glass in museums, with fake smoke and artificial dummies. --David Shove Roseville On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Being a nonsmoker sensitive to smoke I very much like the smoke free > environment that this may not provide - but putting that asside - I like > it too. > > But I think clarity is needed from what Steve is proposing and what > David is assuming. Steve is only proposing that workers are protected > here, pointing out they may not have a work option elsewhere. Rightly > so, this does not include patrons of such places. Customers have a > choice and go to such establishments on their own accord and risk. > > Liz Greenbaum > Longfellow > > > > David Shove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I like it. > > > >If the damage done to the clientele/employees only amounts to $100 a > >month, and give the insurance co its usual 20-30% markup, that's only $120 > >to $130 per month. Easily made up in alcohol profits - especially if > >smoking it supposed to be so GOOD for profits. > > > > >On Sat, 12 Mar 2005, Steve Nelson wrote: > >>> "Any employer who wishes to allow his establishment to be a non-smoke > >> free environment takes on the liability of his employees health care in > >> relation to any health care problems related to or aggravated by tobacco > >> smoke. The burden of proof falls upon the owner of the establishment to > >> prove that the health problem was NOT caused by exposure at his place of > >> business. No employees shall be forced to sign waivers to this > >> provision prior to or during employment nor shall any such waivers be > >> deemed valid as related to smoking exposure. This burden shall not be > >> construed as license to disregard employees right to privacy. > >> Reasonable access to medical records and health history shall be > >> permitted but shall not rise to the level of harassment as defined by > >> law." > >> > >> Take issue with the wording any way you want but I think the gist of it is > >> clear. > > > > -- > Elizabeth Greenbaum > Executive Director > ArtiCulture > www.articulture.org > 612.729.5151 > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[email protected] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
