----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Lilligren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Minneapolis Issues Forum'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:04 PM
Subject: [Mpls] Smoking ban night 2
>>>snip of a bunch of stuff about a really neat community meeting<<<
> The place was full. Many people, including two smokers, commented on how
nice it was to be able to breathe cleaner air. >One smoker said, "This will
probably help me quit smoking," which is, I believe, the objective of the
ban activists.
MT: Then be a courageous politician, or encourage other politicians to be
courageous, and band the stuff outright.
> I just got home from meeting a dear friend at Azia (it's kind of a hang of
mine). It was packed. All along Eat Street there were little groups of
people standing outside of bars and restaurants smoking. I like this street
presence on Nicollet. Though we aren't all that familiar with it here in
Minneapolis, this is what is called "street life" and it can be a good
thing.
MT: So a byproduct of banning the use of a legal product is that people can
better visit with their fellow citizens on the street? That kind of social
engineering is unnecessary and contrived. This reminds me of a zoning
ordinance I saw passed in a Portland Oregon suburb several years ago banning
(yes, BANNING) the building of homes whose garages protruded past the front
door ("snout houses"). The sole reason for banning this style of suburban
construction was so that neighbors would sit on their front stoop and visit.
Nothing else. If we want people to be all together and being all neighborly
and friendly, fine. But don't try to package the smoking ban as some kind of
really super-neato community togetherness initiative called "street life."
What a bunch of crap.
> An old friend of mine who lives in Manhattan, smokes, and runs a bar and
restaurant assured me during the smoking ban debate, "You pass the ban and
then you deal with it. It's not that big a deal".
MT says: Remind me to tell you "it's not that big a deal" when your ability
to run your business and cater to the clients you wish to cater to is
removed by force of law, under the banner of knowing what's better for you.
No wait, you're a city councilperson..... city councilpersons don't have to
worry about that.
Then David Shove says: "This is a misrepresentation and slander of most
people's motives to want to ban smoking. My own motive is SELFISH - I (ME,
D.S.) don't want PERSONALLY to have to put up with godawful smoke. Personal.
Selfish. For me. I want it for ME."
MT replies: That's not surprising. Of course, people like you wouldn't have
to put up with "godawful smoke" if you'd just make a decision to stay out of
smoky bars. But decisions being reserved for those with a spine capable of
the burdens of adulthood, that may be asking too much. What's next?
"Godawful 80's music"? Ban it, David!!!
Then Andy Driscoll says: "Would Mr. Atherton prefer a solid dose of
salmonella for the same customers who breathe the poison others create with
their stogies and cigarettes? Without other health regulations, that's what
we'd get."
MT says: The idea that the smoking ban is some sort of "health regulation"
is fallacious. This is a tired and inaccurate argument that is put forth by
people who swallow the tripe the freedom grabbing city council feeds them.
The smoking ban is not a "health regulation." If it truly was, smoking would
be banned. The smoking ban is a convenience regulation wrapped in a pretty
package about worker safety and public health. It was constructed for people
who simply lack the ability to make an adult decision about where they eat
and drink. Workers are free to work wherever they want. But thank God above
the Minneapolis city council knows better for all of us what is, and is not,
in our best interest.
Dain Lyngstad says: "Perhaps we could utilize new technologies (and create
jobs) by placing air filters of a grand sort instead
of just banning everything a group finds personally wrong. It is the spirit
of compromise that is sorely lacking in the mpls government."
MT replies: Mr. Lyngstad is onto something here. I see the left-leaning "ban
everything" crowd being far more repressive overall than any of the other
parties, it's just packaged and delivered with a caring "we know what's
better for you" smile. This group appears to go through life living the "if
it's a good idea, it must be a law" mentality.
I just got back from Mexico today. Down there, smoking is everywhere in
restaurants and bars. I don't like cigarette smoke myself, being a
non-smoker and all. But I didn't insist that others take their habit
elsewhere, I simply moved tables or moved restaurants. It ain't that tough,
folks. If someone is asthmatic, for God's sake stay out of smoky bars. It
reminds me of the school district that is banning all peanuts in the entire
district because one kid is allergic. It's mind-boggling.
And the sad part of it all is that so many people go along with the charade
of "worker health" and the other associated tripe. Sooner or later, folks,
something will be banned that YOU won't like, and the ban will be foisted on
you because it is "better for you" or in your "best interest" because the
Minneapolis city council ultimately knows what is better for you. You will
be unable to put the genie back in the bottle by that time. Every time a ban
like this passes, ALL of us lose some of our freedom. Like I've said
before, I personally don't care if anyone can't find the spine to make their
own personal adult decisions. But when someone's inability to make a
decision to stay out of a smoky bar necessitates a ban, all of our freedoms
are eroded, and nobody wins. The city council won't easily forget this bit
of power voluntarily given to them, and more of this type of thing is
coming. Sooner or later the Minneapolis city council will come for something
that the David Shoves of the world care about, then the chickens will have
really come home to roost.
Mike Thompson
Windom
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